New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Czech_pivo]

The Coast Guard DO NOT GUARD ANYTHING! Except perhaps life at sea (like a lifeguard). That's the entire point of my arguement. Adding "Guarding" is an expansion of their role.

Flip the coin over - removing 'Guard' eliminates the falsehood of them actually having to perform a task that is within their very name.
As its been suggested - CMS - Canadian Marine Services - rings nicely. Maybe even roll them into Transport Canada and/or into Fisheries and Oceans.
The RCMP had its role/responsibility of performing the tasks that CSIS performs removed. They had the role/responsibility of what JTF2 now performs removed. They had their arctic nautical role/responsibility that the CCG performs, and RCN is now taking on, removed.

The point I'm trying to make is that departments/organizations need to be flexible/nimble enough to realise that the world changes around them and that they need to change sometimes with it.

 

[Spencer100]

Flip the coin over - removing 'Guard' eliminates the falsehood of them actually having to perform a task that is within their very name.
As its been suggested - CMS - Canadian Marine Services - rings nicely. Maybe even roll them into Transport Canada and/or into Fisheries and Oceans.
The RCMP had its role/responsibility of performing the tasks that CSIS performs removed. They had the role/responsibility of what JTF2 now performs removed. They had their arctic nautical role/responsibility that the CCG performs, and RCN is now taking on, removed.

The point I'm trying to make is that departments/organizations need to be flexible/nimble enough to realise that the world changes around them and that they need to change sometimes with it.

Also because I can see both sides of coin. There should also be a "wall" I guess you can call it between civil service and services with "unlimited liability" employment cause. With the ability of taking a life (e.i. armed) over with the unlimited liability side of the house. Also things like SAR techs in there too.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I bet if you asked the average Joe about the CCG he would think it's like the US CG but way smaller and equipment that is just not as new.

LOl, quite a few of their ships are older than ours.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No argument from me at all, S100!

Heck, Canada contracted out its entire Air Traffic Control and Navigation capability.

• Maritime Navigation (Buoys and Ice breaking) > contracted
• Marine SAR > contracted

View attachment 75843

Ocean Group will be very happy with you and are ready to rape you dry as you bend over the table

You also forgot training the volunteer groups and oil spill response

 

[Good2Golf]

Ocean Group will be very happy with you and are ready to rape you dry as you bend over the table

It’s the Canadian way.

Turn it into just a money problem, not a money and people problem. Beside, the Federal Government will look after the associated debt so that we don’t have to.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect that killing the CCG is going to be a political poison pill, even if your going to follow the Trinity House/RNLI model. The guard was being slowly killed by budget deficits and was cutting back seriously on navaids, to the point that safe navigation on the West Coast was compromised.

The lack of coverage on the coast was a serious issue identified during all the EA's for the LNG and other shipping terminals. The complete lack of salvage tugs was another issue. None of the current CCG are suitable for towing large merchant ships (we tried towing the Exxon San Francisco with an 1100, not working so well). This is current covered by a contract for two ships from a private contractor and is quite expensive. Thanks to all the marine activity, 50 new aids established, new radar coverage for Prince Rupert (PR MCTS was basically doing the Battle of Britain thing with maps and little markers for ships) and more repeaters for VHF.

 

[Good2Golf]

Maybe NavCanada should take over the navaids thing?

 

[Spencer100]

I suspect that killing the CCG is going to be a political poison pill, even if your going to follow the Trinity House/RNLI model. The guard was being slowly killed by budget deficits and was cutting back seriously on navaids, to the point that safe navigation on the West Coast was compromised.

The lack of coverage on the coast was a serious issue identified during all the EA's for the LNG and other shipping terminals. The complete lack of salvage tugs was another issue. None of the current CCG are suitable for towing large merchant ships (we tried towing the Exxon San Francisco with an 1100, not working so well). This is current covered by a contract for two ships from a private contractor and is quite expensive. Thanks to all the marine activity, 50 new aids established, new radar coverage for Prince Rupert (PR MCTS was basically doing the Battle of Britain thing with maps and little markers for ships) and more repeaters for VHF.

So in other words "success!" You have look at it with what are are goals. See no tankers on the west coast we can't do it safely.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So in other words "success!" You have look at it with what are are goals. See no tankers on the west coast we can't do it safely.

For now, no oil exports. Lots of coastal tankers, propane carriers and soon to be LNG carriers. Except the next round of oil export terminals have FN groups as their standard bearers and might be harder for the government to quash.

 

[Navy_Pete]

For now, no oil exports. Lots of coastal tankers, propane carriers and soon to be LNG carriers. Except the next round of oil export terminals have FN groups as their standard bearers and might be harder for the government to quash.

Seems like a no brainer to me; lump it under National Security (energy security) and Reconciliation, fund the solution, put it towards our NATO commitment.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Seems like a no brainer to me; lump it under National Security (energy security) and Reconciliation, fund the solution, put it towards our NATO commitment.

Well that would solve our 2% GDP quest, Petronos LNG proposal was 36 billion some 10 years ago, so a new oil export terminal and pipeline will be in that range as well

 

[Navy_Pete]

Well that would solve our 2% GDP quest, Petronos LNG proposal was 36 billion some 10 years ago, so a new oil export terminal and pipeline will be in that range as well

If the 'National Shipbuilding Strategy' includes all repair work, spares, small boat procurements etc under their banner, seems doable.

And given that it would help allies with energy security from a friendly nation (ie not Russia) and the recent example of Germany's reluctance it's not even that much of a stretch.

Much more useful in real terms compared to yet another HQ or an expansion to CJOC.

 

[Dana381]

The Coast Guard DO NOT GUARD ANYTHING! Except perhaps life at sea (like a lifeguard). That's the entire point of my arguement. Adding "Guarding" is an expansion of their role.

first lines of the CCG website

"The Canadian Coast Guard is a special operating agency within Fisheries and Oceans Canada. We work to ensure the safety of mariners in Canadian waters and protect Canada’s marine environment.

We support Canada’s economic growth through the safe and efficient movement of maritime trade. We help to ensure our country’s sovereignty and security through our presence in Canadian waters."

Just how do they do that exactly? Anybody that wants to threaten our sovereignty and/or security will just ignore the coast guard. What measures can they take to compel bad actors to comply?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

first lines of the CCG website

"The Canadian Coast Guard is a special operating agency within Fisheries and Oceans Canada. We work to ensure the safety of mariners in Canadian waters and protect Canada’s marine environment.

We support Canada’s economic growth through the safe and efficient movement of maritime trade. We help to ensure our country’s sovereignty and security through our presence in Canadian waters."

Just how do they do that exactly? Anybody that wants to threaten our sovereignty and/or security will just ignore the coast guard. What measures can they take to compel bad actors to comply?

We will unleash a SWL onto them.

 

[Dana381]

The only SWL I am familiar with is "safe working load"

 

[GR66]

The only SWL I am familiar with is "safe working load"

Strongly Worded Letter

 

[Underway]

Part of sovereignty is using the space. 90% of security is being there. That's why companies hire security guards who just observe and report.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Ocean Group will be very happy with you and are ready to rape you dry as you bend over the table

You also forgot training the volunteer groups and oil spill response

WCMR enters the chat…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

WCMR enters the chat…

True they did take over a lot of that work, but still depend a lot on the CCG.

 

[KevinB]

Part of sovereignty is using the space. 90% of security is being there. That's why companies hire security guards who just observe and report.

Possession is 9/10th’s the law.

Armed Possession is the other 1/10th.