New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Colin Parkinson]

when I asked university trained people how their TV's and other appliance got here from Asia and some said "train" and some slightly brighter ones said "Airplane" They were shocked that the most goods come by ship.

 

[Maxman1]

Far too much combatant in the Hamina class, when something like the Orca needs to focus on its primary goal as a training platform.

I would argue the opposite, that the Orca is too much of an unarmed trainer. A 57mm is probably overkill on a ship like that, but being at least fitted for but not with items like something larger than a .50 would be quite useful.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The RCN needs it's 6 APOVs. They are busy right now, and will continue to be busy for the foreseeable future.

Agreed. We need the AOPs for now. They are serviceable and able to provide sea time.

I can see them being TX'd to the CCG, if their function and fit changed, once the RCDs and MCDV replacements come online though.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Agreed. We need the AOPs for now. They are serviceable and able to provide sea time.

I can see them being TX'd to the CCG, if their function and fit changed, once the RCDs and MCDV replacements come online though.

I’d like to see them be operated by the CCG for OP Caribe. Then it’s CCG working with USCG.
I’ll take a lot of flak for this I’m sure, but CCG works with USCG and RCN works with USN. Peer to peer.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I would argue the opposite, that the Orca is too much of an unarmed trainer. A 57mm is probably overkill on a ship like that, but being at least fitted for but not with items like something larger than a .50 would be quite useful.

Hamina is a fully fledged missile boat with anti-ship missiles, light anti-aircraft missiles, a substantial main gun and a full suite of sensors/decoys. This kind of combatant is utterly useless for the Royal Canadian Navy and is a substantial waste of time, effort and money. The Orca's entire purpose is to act as economic training platforms for our personnel, we should be looking to have them be more effective in this role and not be turned into bootleg patrol craft and be removed from said duties. If the Orca's were actually capable of leaving coastal BC, this would have happened already.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Would there be any benefit of building something less than a PC2 but more than a AOPS in terms of icebreaking capabilities - say a PC3?

Not particularly, given that such a vessel doesn't need those polar classes for its designated roles. One has to understand that the higher polar class that is integrated into a design, the more rigid of a traditional icebreaker it becomes. AOPS is able to operate abroad due to its lower ice rating and specific design requirements to do so, but fundamentally there is many tradeoffs required by heavy icebreakers that makes them only suited to those roles.

Higher polar class ratings drastically increase the complexity, build time and cost of designs, so it should not be applied recklessly.

In all seriousness a big F-off icebreaker doing a similar job to this, giving arctic BMD is an interesting concept. Or at least carrying a well heeled sensor package to augment airforce assets in NORAD. I don't see either, but I'm pushing envelopes and buttons here. Outside the box thinking may be coming down the line.

Arctic BMD Polar Icebreaker is an immensely silly and costly program that I hope the Govt would steer far away from, unless they've all fallen to the brain worms.

I’d like to see them be operated by the CCG for OP Caribe. Then it’s CCG working with USCG.
I’ll take a lot of flak for this I’m sure, but CCG works with USCG and RCN works with USN. Peer to peer.

Fundamentally, the USCG and CCG are different organizations with different mandates. The constant comparisons aren't really useful or much appreciated by the CCG staff themselves. In order to do what the RCN does, you'd need some weird DFO/CCG/RCMP crewed hybrid vessel, which is an immense amount of work compared to what we're doing now.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Not particularly, given that such a vessel doesn't need those polar classes for its designated roles. One has to understand that the higher polar class that is integrated into a design, the more rigid of a traditional icebreaker it becomes. AOPS is able to operate abroad due to its lower ice rating and specific design requirements to do so, but fundamentally there is many tradeoffs required by heavy icebreakers that makes them only suited to those roles.

Higher polar class ratings drastically increase the complexity, build time and cost of designs, so it should not be applied recklessly.


Arctic BMD Polar Icebreaker is an immensely silly and costly program that I hope the Govt would steer far away from, unless they've all fallen to the brain worms.


Fundamentally, the USCG and CCG are different organizations with different mandates. The constant comparisons aren't really useful or much appreciated by the CCG staff themselves. In order to do what the RCN does, you'd need some weird DFO/CCG/RCMP crewed hybrid vessel, which is an immense amount of work compared to what we're doing now.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if Carney's talk yesterday about expanding their mandate turns out to be something of substance or not.