New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Halifax Tar]

Interesting read.

DeepDive: It’s time to end the boom-and-bust cycle of Canadian shipbuilding

How Canada can learn from its proud shipbuilding past to secure its future, diversify its economy, and boost its manufacturing capabilities

thehub.ca

 

[dapaterson]

Canada needs a professional shipbuilding industry.

But there's probably room for Irving, too.

 

[Rifleman62]

A bit of history.

Collision HMCS Preserver and HMS Penelope (1988)​

HMS Penelope suffered a machinery breakdown and collided with the starboard side of the Canadian Naval supply ship HMCS Preserver (AOR 510) during a RAS.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Stick her in the pond at Carling Campus / NDHQ in Ottawa.

Good luck getting her through the honking death squad that patrols that pond ceaselessly…and mind your shoes.

 

[Underway]

Some topical discussion. In particular at the time stamp provided interesting information on the Continental Defence Corvette program ideas.
RCN is going to sell this as a "diversification away from the US"
-Tier 2 combatant
-CMS 330 (love how he dodged that it was made by Lockheed Martin Canada)
-Canadian Navigation System (OSI)
-Likely European sensors and weapons
-long range
-ice capability

That last one is a huge surprise, unless its just ice strengthened. He identified that you can pick industrial leaders to do the work that's needed. Australia did this with the Hunter Class by identifying the specific radar (CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT) they wanted.

Also interesting tidbit about FP suicide naval drones using the Hammerhead targets at timestamp 42:47

 

[Czech_pivo]

Some topical discussion. In particular at the time stamp provided interesting information on the Continental Defence Corvette program ideas.
RCN is going to sell this as a "diversification away from the US"
-Tier 2 combatant
-CMS 330 (love how he dodged that it was made by Lockheed Martin Canada)
-Canadian Navigation System (OSI)
-Likely European sensors and weapons
-long range
-ice capability

That last one is a huge surprise, unless its just ice strengthened. He identified that you can pick industrial leaders to do the work that's needed. Australia did this with the Hunter Class by identifying the specific radar (CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT) they wanted.

Also interesting tidbit about FP suicide naval drones using the Hammerhead targets at timestamp 42:47

Interesting about the Corvettes having 'ice capability' - if you couple this to the narrative of Churchill or Nelson or Churchill and Nelson being developed into major, large ports that export a variety of goods (Oil/LNG/Potash/Nickel/Wheat/Corn/Cobalt/XXX/YYY) and there will be a constant stream of ice capable tankers/freighters coming and going, it would stand to reason that there should be RCN ships capable to provide escort to these said tankers/freighters in troubled times.

 

[PrairieFella]

Naval folk - is Topshee as a good a leader and advocate for the RCN as he seems or just a really good communicator? Everything Ive seen about him sure makes it look like you're very lucky to have him at the helm. Maybe its about for a naval CDS again?

 

[Rainbow1910]

Interesting about the Corvettes having 'ice capability' - if you couple this to the narrative of Churchill or Nelson or Churchill and Nelson being developed into major, large ports that export a variety of goods (Oil/LNG/Potash/Nickel/Wheat/Corn/Cobalt/XXX/YYY) and there will be a constant stream of ice capable tankers/freighters coming and going, it would stand to reason that there should be RCN ships capable to provide escort to these said tankers/freighters in troubled times.

Not sure I'd look into that comment too much, I would bet that Topshee is referring to something in the same vein as the Kingston class where they are not ice rated but instead ice strengthened. It provides some very limited operational capability without all of the substantial weight and cost considerations that fully ice rating a vessel to Polar or whatever other standards entails.

 

[Stoker]

Not sure I'd look into that comment too much, I would bet that Topshee is referring to something in the same vein as the Kingston class where they are not ice rated but instead ice strengthened. It provides some very limited operational capability without all of the substantial weight and cost considerations that fully ice rating a vessel to Polar or whatever other standards entails.

Kingston Class has a actual Lloyds ice rating.

 

[Cloud Cover]

What is this guy talking about here? Are the Brits seriously looking at this many new ship classes?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1941116827188506953

 

[Underway]

What is this guy talking about here? Are the Brits seriously looking at this many new ship classes?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1941116827188506953

T83 is a replacement for their Type 45 destroyers.

T91 is a small arsenal ship concept that is optionally crewed.

T92 is an optionally crewed ASW picket concept.

T32 is an evolved Type 31 (more capability, same hull). That one looks to be mostly dead though. It could more properly be called T31 Block 2 or something.

Of these projects the only one guaranteed to reach full production and multiple hulls is the T83.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Some topical discussion. In particular at the time stamp provided interesting information on the Continental Defence Corvette program ideas.
RCN is going to sell this as a "diversification away from the US"
-Tier 2 combatant
-CMS 330 (love how he dodged that it was made by Lockheed Martin Canada)
-Canadian Navigation System (OSI)
-Likely European sensors and weapons
-long range
-ice capability

That last one is a huge surprise, unless its just ice strengthened. He identified that you can pick industrial leaders to do the work that's needed. Australia did this with the Hunter Class by identifying the specific radar (CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT) they wanted.

Also interesting tidbit about FP suicide naval drones using the Hammerhead targets at timestamp 42:47

To big for what we need in a corvette (same tonnage as a Halifax), but we could learn/review what they did to get her ice class and apply that to the vessels we need.

Pohjanmaa-class corvette - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Maxman1]

To big for what we need in a corvette (same tonnage as a Halifax), but we could learn/review what they did to get her ice class and apply that to the vessels we need.

Pohjanmaa-class corvette - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The ice strengthening probably adds a fair bit of tonnage.

 

[deepblue202]

This seems to have different options:

Gowind-class design - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Was on this vessel yesterday, nice to be on a warship with that "New ship smell". Only has RIM over the stern and two Harpoon launch platforms, but appears it may have room for VLS behind the 57mm. I think the Indonesian version has VLS.

ARM Benito Juárez (POLA-101) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Underway]

Was on this vessel yesterday, nice to be on a warship with that "New ship smell". Only has RIM over the stern and two Harpoon launch platforms, but appears it may have room for VLS behind the 57mm. I think the Indonesian version has VLS.

ARM Benito Juárez (POLA-101) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, they use MICA IIRC. Which is a horrible option. Likely a Canadianized version would have Mk56 launchers instead for ESSM. Would prefer Mk41 but space, weight, cost might be prohibitive. The RAM would be replaced with something else (or nothing at all).

If this ship is going to stand on its own, I think ESSM is a must. At a minimum 8 missiles.

Cdr Mazur posted that this would be an interesting MCDV replacement on his X page.

My favourite Corvette right now is the German MEKO A100's. Amazing little ships. Love their engineering arrangement, IR signature reduction, and radar X section reduction. If Canada does a clean sheet build (which it looks like we might) this is a place to look for inspiration.

 

[MacNav63]

Yes, they use MICA IIRC. Which is a horrible option. Likely a Canadianized version would have Mk56 launchers instead for ESSM. Would prefer Mk41 but space, weight, cost might be prohibitive. The RAM would be replaced with something else (or nothing at all).

If this ship is going to stand on its own, I think ESSM is a must. At a minimum 8 missiles.

Cdr Mazur posted that this would be an interesting MCDV replacement on his X page.

Which version I wonder. I see there is a frigate, corvette and fast attack corvette although most customers seem to have opted for the frigate.

 

[Underway]

Which version I wonder. I see there is a frigate, corvette and fast attack corvette although most customers seem to have opted for the frigate.

He posted the image of the Benito Juarez as he was sailing in company with it when he made the comment. It was all very light and fluffy. Just complementing the ship.

 

[Rainbow1910]

My primary issue with many of the existing corvette designs on the market is that they do not adequately consider the importance of containerized payloads, largely lacking proper space aft for this. I hope the CDC does not overly fall into the trap of a combatant when we still need a Kingston class replacement at the end of the day and no, I do not especially find the idea of converted civilian/unmanned platforms to be a stand-in for these capabilities not being fitted. Pushing many of the flexibility of this vessel off onto programs that may or may not happen is a very poor idea.

 

[Kirkhill]

This one?

The Danes Build the Next Generation Modular Ship: The “Mothership” and “Payload Centric Platform Modularity" - Second Line of Defense

By Robbin Laird During my visit to the DSEI conference in London In September 2023, I spent a significant part of my time looking at a real revolution in ship building, maritime automated systems, and the payload revolution underlying the kill web. I did this in large part by the opportunity to...

sldinfo.com

The Royal Danish Navy's new multi-role patrol ships, designed by the Danske Patruljeskibe K/S consortium, will have a displacement of approximately 1,720 tonnes. These ships, part of the MRPV 90 design, will also be about 90 meters long and 18 meters wide according to Janes. The design contract was signed in June 2023, with the first steel cut in 2024.