New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Kirkhill]

As you've noted it will be quite some time before we have the fleet available to do what we want/need it to do. We do however have other assets available to prosecute our most significant potential naval threat - submarines. We have the Aurora's with P-8s and MQ-9b's coming. We have the CPF's with Cyclones. The problem is we have a limited number available of each and a vast maritime domain to cover.

I'd suggest that while we wait for the fleet to be built we put a major focus on domain awareness so that we can better concentrate our limited ASW assets where required. To my mind we should be putting an urgent effort into fielding a substantial fleet of fairly simple UUVs and USVs to create a sensor web to monitor to waters of our EEZ.

Focus on detection...produce in mass and expect them to be expendable...don't allow for mission creep to make exquisite (and expensive) multi-role, cutting edge systems. Have the uncrewed systems detect and let the crewed systems respond.

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The $1.7 billion, five-year contract announced on 10 September would cover production ofwith entry into service early in 2026, the government said. The money would also pay for maintaining the submarines in service and for further development of the design.

‘This is the leading capability in the world in terms of a long-range autonomous underwater capability,’ Defence Minister Richard Marles told reporters. Specifications are undisclosed, but the all-electric Ghost Sharks are evidently less than 12 metres long, in at least one configuration, and displace less than 100 tonnes.

The dozens of Ghost Sharks in the initial batch, plus those that will follow, should enormously expand Australia’s ability to exploit the advantages of undersea warfare—to observe an enemy and disrupt its actions.

Editors’ picks for 2025: 'Sharks for filling the moat: what Anduril’s autonomous submarines can do for Australia' | The Strategist

Autonomous submarines that Australia has launched into production are likely to relieve operational pressure on the country’s crewed submarines, undertake the most dangerous undersea missions, and present an enemy with greater risk of detection and ...

www.aspistrategist.org.au

....

Atlantic Bastion plans advancing as autonomous submarine XV Excalibur handed to Royal Navy

Excalibur is a 12-metre experimental vessel. At a displacement of 19 tonnes, it’s the largest uncrewed underwater vessel ever trialled by the Royal Navy.

www.gov.uk

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I don't think this is a solution on its own, but it could be an adjunct in the near term. It doesn't really address the problem of trickling out ships to match a job creation programme when what is required is a near term functional fleet.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Seaspan
2 JSS
3 OSFV PC7
1 OOSV PC6

Polar Icebreaker PC2
up to 15 MPIV PC4
JSS #3?

Davie
Polar Icebreaker PC2
6 medium icebreakers PC3
2 Ferries
2 GLAM? PC7?

Irving
8 AOPS PC4/5

15 RCD

need the people too, is there a danger that we spread things to thin?

If we get 10-12 subs then it becomes logical that we will most likely need a sub recovery vessel for each coast. Do we build that or do we farm that off for someone else to build?
It stands to reason that the CDC (Continental Défense Corvettte) becomes a priority as soon as we announce who will build our subs. Again, are we building those 12 ships or are we farming them out to someone else?
The first APOS was commissioned in June of 2021, by the time the last RCD is commissioned sometime between 2046-2050, Harry DeWolf will be pushing 30yrs old.

 

[suffolkowner]

If we get 10-12 subs then it becomes logical that we will most likely need a sub recovery vessel for each coast. Do we build that or do we farm that off for someone else to build?
It stands to reason that the CDC (Continental Défense Corvettte) becomes a priority as soon as we announce who will build our subs. Again, are we building those 12 ships or are we farming them out to someone else?
The first APOS was commissioned in June of 2021, by the time the last RCD is commissioned sometime between 2046-2050, Harry DeWolf will be pushing 30yrs old.

Yeah no idea how its all going to happen on the build side or the personnel side for the RCN.
Presumably AOPS replacement is a problem that can be put off for another day
Theres also rumoured addition of more PC2

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If we get 10-12 subs then it becomes logical that we will most likely need a sub recovery vessel for each coast. Do we build that or do we farm that off for someone else to build?
It stands to reason that the CDC (Continental Défense Corvettte) becomes a priority as soon as we announce who will build our subs. Again, are we building those 12 ships or are we farming them out to someone else?
The first APOS was commissioned in June of 2021, by the time the last RCD is commissioned sometime between 2046-2050, Harry DeWolf will be pushing 30yrs old.

With our vessel manning issue, I would buy/hire two civilian vessels with the capability and also use them to inspect underwater infrastructure, such as cables. Crews would be civilians on contract.

 

[Underway]

With our vessel manning issue, I would buy/hire two civilian vessels with the capability and also use them to inspect underwater infrastructure, such as cables. Crews would be civilians on contract.

Perhaps... and I'm just spitballing, a submarine recovery/rescue ship could do the underwater infrastructure job as well. I suspect there is overlapping equipment.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Perhaps... and I'm just spitballing, a submarine recovery/rescue ship could do the underwater infrastructure job as well. I suspect there is overlapping equipment.

That's what I am thinking and it keeps the crews active and sharp, along with making better use of government funds.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

CORMORANT II anyone!

 

[Stoker]

I see New Dock in St.John's is modernizing their facilities. They will be building a new Syncrolift with a 38000 tonne lifting capacity. One of the biggest in North America apparently. They are probably looking to get some of the larger vessels for work.

 

[DBNSG]

I see New Dock in St.John's is modernizing their facilities. They will be building a new Syncrolift with a 38000 tonne lifting capacity. One of the biggest in North America apparently. They are probably looking to get some of the larger vessels for work.

That would not surprise me since both of the new Heavy Ice Breakers and at least two of the Program Ships will probably be based on the Rock.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I see New Dock in St.John's is modernizing their facilities. They will be building a new Syncrolift with a 38000 tonne lifting capacity. One of the biggest in North America apparently. They are probably looking to get some of the larger vessels for work.

The next question would be. If they move up from a max handling of a 4,000 tonne vessel to a 38,000 tonne, will they have the employees on site to handle a ship 9X bigger? Very happy to see this potential growth and future options, but like you and others have pointed out, we need the warm bodies to ensure that the execution of the plan happens.

 

[Stoker]

The next question would be. If they move up from a max handling of a 4,000 tonne vessel to a 38,000 tonne, will they have the employees on site to handle a ship 9X bigger? Very happy to see this potential growth and future options, but like you and others have pointed out, we need the warm bodies to ensure that the execution of the plan happens.

One would think if a private business was building such a drydock they would have thought it through.........

 

[DBNSG]

One would think if a private business was building such a drydock they would have thought it through.........

There is a new Indigenous part owner of the Shipyard from the Membertou Reserve in Sydney. If they are as successful in Newfoundland as they have been in Cape Breton then the Shipyard is in good hands. The Membertou leadership have built or acquired many businesses with a game plan of using these enterprises as on the job training for the Youth of the reserve.
When you are on Membertou property's you do not feel like you are on a reserve but a busy, prosperous, suburban community.

 

[Czech_pivo]

One would think if a private business was building such a drydock they would have thought it through.........

Its the same argument that's been brought up as to why Irving or Davie or Seaspan is unable to increase tempo of their current builds - because they can't find qualified people. I wish these guys out in St John's much success.

 

[Stoker]

There is a new Indigenous part owner of the Shipyard from the Membertou Reserve in Sydney. If they are as successful in Newfoundland as they have been in Cape Breton then the Shipyard is in good hands. The Membertou leadership have built or acquired many businesses with a game plan of using these enterprises as on the job training for the Youth of the reserve.
When you are on Membertou property's you do not feel like you are on a reserve but a busy, prosperous, suburban community.

Exactly

 

[Stoker]

Its the same argument that's been brought up as to why Irving or Davie or Seaspan is unable to increase tempo of their current builds - because they can't find qualified people. I wish these guys out in St John's much success.

You don't think they can't?, they know exactly what their doing. New Dock is a maintenance facility only with existing workers. Lots of Newfoundlanders in the trades who would love to come home and work local and like previously mentioned used for training and employment opportunity for aboriginal youth. If that fails lots of immigrants here looking for work.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You don't think they can't?, they know exactly what their doing. New Dock is a maintenance facility only with existing workers. Lots of Newfoundlanders in the trades who would love to come home and work local and like previously mentioned used for training and employment opportunity for aboriginal youth. If that fails lots of immigrants here looking for work.

Great, good to hear.
I've just listened for the last 3+yrs about how difficult its been for Irving (as 1 example) to recruit workers to build our new ships. If the worm has indeed turned, I'm glad to hear that staffing our ship building/maintenance facilities is no longer a concern.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Great, good to hear.
I've just listened for the last 3+yrs about how difficult its been for Irving (as 1 example) to recruit workers to build our new ships. If the worm has indeed turned, I'm glad to hear that staffing our ship building/maintenance facilities is no longer a concern.

I think you would enjoy this podcast.

 

[Kirkhill]

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There is some near-term real money being spent on related capabilities that could be dual-use investments. Get with Transport Canada and Marine Atlantic and make sure that the vessels are fitted-for and maybe even with to suit your needs in the North. Cover the cost differential between the civvy vessel and the plussed-up vessel you need.

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