New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Furniture]

I know we already have the 57’s but why not put 76’s on the CDC’s and hold the 57’s in reserve in case we were pressed to put them on the AOPS or on something else.

To put them on AOPS would require rebuilding the entire front end of the ship, it isn't happening.

The 57mm is a great gun for what we need smaller ships to do, so using what we have, or buying more updated versions makes a lot of sense.

This isn't WWII, we aren't using the "main battery" to engage in surface warfare, it's mostly about air threats and lower threat actions against smaller ships/boats.

 

[NavyShooter]

Installing the 57mm on the foc'sle of the AOPS with a through deck penetrating magazine feed mechanism would require a lot of work.

However.

If you give up the loading system, and are willing to go with just 121 rounds in the mount, loaded manually from the rear door...you can have a surface mounted turret with 121 rounds onboard...

Note that in order to unload the 57mm, you have to do it manually on the upper decks. There's no reason you couldn't also load it that way as well.

Now, adding a 57mm without an effective fire control system - well - that means you need to add a CEROS 200 on the bridge-top. Then you need an air/surface search radar capable of designating targets accurately enough for them to be in the target finding window (range/elevation/bearing) that the CEROS needs.

So, bringing over the 57mm, doing a deck mount only with upper deck loading could work, but you'd need an improved search radar, and you'd need to add a fire control radar as well.

Oh, and interestingly, that same FC radar could also be used for aircraft engagements, so you could add a couple of the Adaptable Deck Launching System box launchers on the foc'sle as well, and get some self-defense Sea Sparrows mounted....and they work with the Quad Pack ESSM, so with 2 of the box launchers, you could have 16 ESSM, with a 57mm gun....and boom...you've got most of the capability of a CPF.

Note based on the BAE Fact Sheet, with the ESSM, it'd be 5820 pounds per loaded launcher - so that's 6 tons of topside weight for 4 cells (16 missiles) plus the weight of the CEROS 200 (~750 Kg) - so that's another ton high up, plus the support cabinets, then the increased weight of the AMB Sea Giraffe 3D radar (assuming those got put on - same as the Radar on the CPF's)

So...you end up with a bunch more weight up topside, and a minimum self-defense capability.

Your relatively unarmed AOPS becomes a Continental Defense Corvette on the cheap.

NS

 

[Maxman1]

I don't think we'll have a CDC by 1930

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Installing the 57mm on the foc'sle of the AOPS with a through deck penetrating magazine feed mechanism would require a lot of work.

However.

If you give up the loading system, and are willing to go with just 121 rounds in the mount, loaded manually from the rear door...you can have a surface mounted turret with 121 rounds onboard...

Note that in order to unload the 57mm, you have to do it manually on the upper decks. There's no reason you couldn't also load it that way as well.

Now, adding a 57mm without an effective fire control system - well - that means you need to add a CEROS 200 on the bridge-top. Then you need an air/surface search radar capable of designating targets accurately enough for them to be in the target finding window (range/elevation/bearing) that the CEROS needs.

So, bringing over the 57mm, doing a deck mount only with upper deck loading could work, but you'd need an improved search radar, and you'd need to add a fire control radar as well.

Oh, and interestingly, that same FC radar could also be used for aircraft engagements, so you could add a couple of the Adaptable Deck Launching System box launchers on the foc'sle as well, and get some self-defense Sea Sparrows mounted....and they work with the Quad Pack ESSM, so with 2 of the box launchers, you could have 16 ESSM, with a 57mm gun....and boom...you've got most of the capability of a CPF.

Note based on the BAE Fact Sheet, with the ESSM, it'd be 5820 pounds per loaded launcher - so that's 6 tons of topside weight for 4 cells (16 missiles) plus the weight of the CEROS 200 (~750 Kg) - so that's another ton high up, plus the support cabinets, then the increased weight of the AMB Sea Giraffe 3D radar (assuming those got put on - same as the Radar on the CPF's)

So...you end up with a bunch more weight up topside, and a minimum self-defense capability.

Your relatively unarmed AOPS becomes a Continental Defense Corvette on the cheap.

NS

I understood that the 57mm is offered with multiple version of through deck ammunition feeds in length and complexity?

At the very least switch the RWS to the Lionfish so we have the same systems on the AOP's and RCD's, plus the .50cal RWS that our on the Halifax's.

 

[Maxman1]

There's apparently a version of the 76 that doesn't require deck penetration, intended for mounting on aircraft hangars. Maybe that would be useful on the AOPS.

 

[Lumber]

Installing the 57mm on the foc'sle of the AOPS with a through deck penetrating magazine feed mechanism would require a lot of work.

However.

If you give up the loading system, and are willing to go with just 121 rounds in the mount, loaded manually from the rear door...you can have a surface mounted turret with 121 rounds onboard...

Note that in order to unload the 57mm, you have to do it manually on the upper decks. There's no reason you couldn't also load it that way as well.

Now, adding a 57mm without an effective fire control system - well - that means you need to add a CEROS 200 on the bridge-top. Then you need an air/surface search radar capable of designating targets accurately enough for them to be in the target finding window (range/elevation/bearing) that the CEROS needs.

So, bringing over the 57mm, doing a deck mount only with upper deck loading could work, but you'd need an improved search radar, and you'd need to add a fire control radar as well.

Oh, and interestingly, that same FC radar could also be used for aircraft engagements, so you could add a couple of the Adaptable Deck Launching System box launchers on the foc'sle as well, and get some self-defense Sea Sparrows mounted....and they work with the Quad Pack ESSM, so with 2 of the box launchers, you could have 16 ESSM, with a 57mm gun....and boom...you've got most of the capability of a CPF.

Note based on the BAE Fact Sheet, with the ESSM, it'd be 5820 pounds per loaded launcher - so that's 6 tons of topside weight for 4 cells (16 missiles) plus the weight of the CEROS 200 (~750 Kg) - so that's another ton high up, plus the support cabinets, then the increased weight of the AMB Sea Giraffe 3D radar (assuming those got put on - same as the Radar on the CPF's)

So...you end up with a bunch more weight up topside, and a minimum self-defense capability.

Your relatively unarmed AOPS becomes a Continental Defense Corvette on the cheap.

NS

To be fair, you don't technically NEED an improved search radar to designate targets: you could settle for operators designating targets manually through the camera and joystick (SLAVE MAN).

 

[Furniture]

I understood that the 57mm is offered with multiple version of through deck ammunition feeds in length and complexity?

At the very least switch the RWS to the Lionfish so we have the same systems on the AOP's and RCD's, plus the .50cal RWS that our on the Halifax's.

There's apparently a version of the 76 that doesn't require deck penetration, intended for mounting on aircraft hangars. Maybe that would be useful on the AOPS.

There is another option...

We can live in reality and accept that the AOPV is not a warship. Then we can not pretend that slapping an expensive weapons system on a ship not designed to fight is a good idea.

 

[GK .Dundas]

There is another option...

We can live in reality and accept that the AOPV is not a warship. Then we can not pretend that slapping an expensive weapons system on a ship not designed to fight is a good idea.

Nobody said it was a good idea in fact it maybe a horrible idea...however we may not be given a choice it may simply be necessary.

 

[Furniture]

Nobody said it was a good idea in fact it maybe a horrible idea...however we may not be given a choice it may simply be necessary.

In the time it would take to convert an AOPV, we could likely build a new OSV with the magazine and other features baked in. Kind of like how the corvettes came about.

Switching to the new RWS used on the RCD? Reasonable. Converting the ship to use a 57mm mount? Ridiculous.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In the time it would take to convert an AOPV, we could likely build a new OSV with the magazine and other features baked in. Kind of like how the corvettes came about.

Switching to the new RWS used on the RCD? Reasonable. Converting the ship to use a 57mm mount? Ridiculous.

They have fitted the 57mm to a 250 ton ships, pretty sure they can easily fit it to the AOP's. It's still a mostly a self-defense weapon. Considering the places it is likley to end up and proliferation of threats a non-state actor can now bring to the table, we are going to have to up our game, a lot.

 

[Furniture]

They have fitted the 57mm to a 250 ton ships, pretty sure they can easily fit it to the AOP's. It's still a mostly a self-defense weapon. Considering the places it is likley to end up and proliferation of threats a non-state actor can now bring to the table, we are going to have to up our game, a lot.

Mounting the gun is not the problem.

Adding the fie control radar, and the magazines for the ammunition is a problem.

We could waste time and effort trying to make AOPVs into shitty CPFs, or we could accept reality, and design/build the CDC instead.

There is essentially nothing a 25mm cannon won't dissuade form fighting that a 57mm cannon will... If you're close enough to shoot a 57mm at it, you're already well inside every ASuW missiles range.