New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Swampbuggy]

I'll point at the "Combat Tanker" stories from the Gulf War....and yes, we have put non warships into warship roles.

I just finished watching it and I came away even more impressed about the man running the Navy.
He has a vision and he's doing whatever he can to see his vision fulfilled. I'd be interested in listening to the heads of the other 2 branches of the CAF and see if I'd walk away feeling the same way.......

If you get a chance to peruse through the CGAI podcast, Dave Perry has spoken with the commanders of both the CA and RCAF. IMHO, they both came off as pragmatic and capable with good abilities to articulate their views. Topshee is a high bar to meet when it comes to talking the talk in a smart and digestible way, but I was impressed with the other two as well.

 

[Swampbuggy]

If you get a chance to peruse through the CGAI podcast, Dave Perry has spoken with the commanders of both the CA and RCAF. IMHO, they both came off as pragmatic and capable with good abilities to articulate their views. Topshee is a high bar to meet when it comes to talking the talk in a smart and digestible way, but I was impressed with the other two as well.

Not sure why that post by @NavyShooter got tangled in with my response. Apologies for any confusion.

 

[FSTO]

For the RCN, Angus has laid the groundwork for his successor to continue to stay on track and grow the service.

Harper’s decision to initiate the national shipbuilding strategy is starting to pay dividends. Not having a national strategy caused RCN leadership to lurch from one bauble to another in attempts to keep the whole enterprise afloat. With the government being committed to shipbuilding, RCN leadership can concentrate on personnel recovery, infrastructure recapitalization and maritime strategy.

I have zero respect for former PM JT, but allowing the NSB to develop was the smartest thing he did while in office.

 

[Underway]

Some things I learned today.

I was aware of the Rule of Three. One ship in refit, one ship returning/working up and one ship available (not necessarily sailing).

But there are other "rules".

Rule of Four: If you have four of the same class one will be at sea at all times. So not just available but sailing. It explains why Boomers/Bomber Subs are always in groupings of 4.
Rule of Five: If you have five of the same class two will be available at all times and one of those will be at sea.

This increase in availability is caused by more overlapping availability schedules and maintenance routines. And it explains why the RCN is looking at fleet sizes of 15 (RCD) and 12 (CPSP). 15 means that there will be 6 ships available, and one task group (min 3 RCD) at sea, at all times. 12 subs means that there will always be three submarines at sea.

I did see one commentator directly point to the RCN as a good example for the RN regarding class size as they estimated that with the full 15 RCD based on historical averages there will be up to 8 ships available on short notice for taskings. His point was that the RN should build 8, 12 or 15 as class sizes because destroyer and frigate availability with their current sizes will be challenged.

Makes me think differently about force structure. Brackets are proposed numbers

15 RCD
12 Submarines
2 (4) JSS/AOR
6 AOPS
(6-9) CDC

I group CDC with AOPS for availability as their roles will overlap a bit for arctic jobs. That's 24 escorts, 6 Patrol, 12 submarines, 4 AORS.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Some things I learned today.

I was aware of the Rule of Three. One ship in refit, one ship returning/working up and one ship available (not necessarily sailing).

But there are other "rules".

Rule of Four: If you have four of the same class one will be at sea at all times. So not just available but sailing.
Rule of Five: If you have five of the same class two will be available at all times and one of those will be at sea.

This increase in availability is caused by more overlapping availability schedules and maintenance routines. And it explains why the RCN is looking at fleet sizes of 15 (RCD) and 12 (CPSP). 15 means that there will be 6 ships available, and one task group (min 3 RCD) at sea, at all times. 12 subs means that there will always be three submarines at sea.

I did see one commentator directly point to the RCN as a good example for the RN regarding class size as they estimated that with the full 15 RCD based on historical averages there will be up to 8 ships available on short notice for taskings. His point was that the RN should build 8, 12 or 15 as class sizes because destroyer and frigate availability with their current sizes will be challenged.

Interesting stuff.

Could you ever see us moving up to 15 subs? Allowing us to have 1 at each end of the Arctic approaches and then 1 on each coast available for other tasks?

Because using your example there could be cases where the 3rd sub available is on the wrong coast....

 

[Underway]

Could you ever see us moving up to 15 subs? Allowing us to have 1 at each end of the Arctic approaches and then 1 on each coast available for other tasks?

Because using your example there could be cases where the 3rd sub available is on the wrong coast....

I don't see it honestly. The idea was that one submarine would be always swimming in every ocean we touch. So 12 is the right number. I would be more interested to see the first sub get replaced soon after the last sub gets built.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't see it honestly. The idea was that one submarine would be always swimming in every ocean we touch. So 12 is the right number. I would be more interested to see the first sub get replaced soon after the last sub gets built.

If we somehow end up with 15 Rivers, 12 KSSII's and 12 CDC, how would you break this fleet between the 2 coasts?

 

[Underway]

If we somehow end up with 15 Rivers, 12 KSSII's and 12 CDC, how would you break this fleet between the 2 coasts?

Subs I would split evenly. Its easier to get to the arctic from the east coast but the Pacific is a submarine ocean. So even split or more subs out west.

CDC sounds like its designed to fight right in the middle of the St. Laurence. Also with its smaller size the Atlantic is a better ocean for it. I would go the same distribution as the frigates with 5 West and 7 East.

RCD probably also weighs more East coast (7 west vs 8 east) as well.

Even split of any JSS we have with clear preference for odd number increases on the West Coast.

 

[Kirkhill]

If we somehow end up with 15 Rivers, 12 KSSII's and 12 CDC, how would you break this fleet between the 2 coasts?

Underway, my WW1 nurse Granny described the rule of three this way: one on, one in the wash and one in the drawer.
Or, one at sea, one at the dock and one in maintenance.
Refit is an extended maintenance taking it out of the cycle to maintain the fleet?


With 12 hulls you sustain 1 hull off our short Pacific ( Esquimalt ro Rupert) coast and two off our very long Atlantic-Arctic coast (Halifax to Inuvik)
With 15 hulls you can expedite three hulls into distant foreign waters for a short time or sustain one hull indefinitely.

So with Underway's numbers

12 Submarines = 4 groups of 3 or 3 groups of four
Let's stick with four in a group allowing for three subs at sea - 1 in the Gulf of Alaska, 1 in Baffin Bay and the NWP, 1 in the NW Atlantic off the Grand Banks

6 AOPS
If the Rule of four were followed then the Navy would be operating all 8 of the AOPS that Irving built and that were called for in the original ConOps. That would leave two hulls up nort following the ice continually and contributing to open water coastal patrols in transit to and from the ice.

(6-9) CDC
Based on that then the number for the CDC would be 8 with one patrolling the BC coast and the other of the Maritimes.

And then we have the CCG conducting constabulary and working patrols.

Now do any of those vessels, if operating within our EEZ and Continental Shelf, have any need for support from the JSS?

....

What do we expect the RCD to do?
Are they going to contribute to the continental role?
Or are they going go further afield?

Are they going to join the Brit and Norwegian Type 26s in Mid-Atlantic working with the RN's hybrid Atlantic Bastion and operating in a proliferation of UxVs?

Or are they going to join the Aussie Type 26s on the First Island Chain?

Or both?

Singletons or Task Forces?

With or without the subs?

15 RCD
2 (4) JSS/AOR