New CF Bride Can't Get Medical Coverage for Birth in SK

[The Bread Guy]

My only comment on this one was:  although the reporter spoke to the SK Ministry of Health, it doesn't appear the question "well, what can be done about this?" was asked.  Then again, if the reporter only spoke to the bureaucrats, and not an SK politician, process is all one would hear about. 

Also, is there anything the CF can do here?  Given health care is generally provincially driven, I guess not, but I stand to be corrected.

Shared with the usual disclaimer...

Soldier faces $20,000 bill for expected child
Cypriot wife has not finalized status as landed immigrant
Melissa Leong, National Post; Canwest News Service, 25 Jan 08
Article link

TORONTO -- A Canadian soldier who met his wife in Cyprus while on a break from his tour in Afghanistan may be stuck with more than $20,000 in medical bills for their expected child.

Master Cpl. Daniel Joudrey, a 34-year-old electrician with the army, said he is struggling to pay for the birth of his son next month because his wife, Calliopi, has not finalized her status as a landed immigrant in Canada and has no medical coverage.

"We're happy the baby is coming but we're worried. I'm applying for loans, getting turned down so things aren't looking good," Joudrey said on Thursday from his home in Dundurn, Sask.

"I figured I'm Canadian, I'm in the military . . . I thought she would be covered the second we got married."

Joudrey, who has been in the military for 14 years, serving in Bosnia and Afghanistan, said he had hoped that because he served his country, his country would look after him and his family.

Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier has on numerous occasions professed the government's "unwavering" support for the Canadian Forces and their families.

Joudrey said he sought help from the National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman, Saskatchewan Health and his military superiors, without recourse.

Calls to National Defence were not returned.

The couple met in August 2006 by a hotel pool in Cypress where Joudrey was undergoing "decompression" -- a program designed to ease the physical and mental rigours of life in the combat zone.

They were married the following March after Joudrey and her nine-year-old daughter moved to Saskatchewan.

Her application for permanent resident status has been delayed by missing paperwork such as a criminal record check and medical records.

She is scheduled for a caesarian section on Feb. 5. Hospital officials recently told them that it would cost $3,700 a day for her hospital stay, not including fees for the surgeon, anesthesiologist or medications, she said.

"I thought somebody made a mistake," Calliopi Joudrey, 30, said. "Because I'm not Canadian, I don't expect free medical treatment. But I thought because (my husband) is Canadian and it is his baby that it would be different."

Calliopi Joudrey must also pay more for standard hospital services because she is a visitor to the country. "If you're not a resident of Canada, (hospitals) usually charge about 125 per cent because of additional administrative fees," said Pat Cambridge, assistant director of health registration and vital statistics at Saskatchewan's ministry of health.

Daniel Joudrey, who grew up in a military family, said he has already spent more than $1,800 for blood work, doctors visits and other medical bills.

Some community members, he said, have kindly donated baby clothes.

The hospital has agreed to set up a payment plan for the Joudreys. Also, the baby will get full coverage after he is born, Cambridge said.

"He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.

"I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."

 

[PMedMoe]

Well maybe he should have looked (more) into health coverage as she is not yet a Canadian citizen. 
I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.

Her application for permanent resident status has been delayed by missing paperwork such as a criminal record check and medical records.

Sounds like the problem is at their end.

 

[exgunnertdo]

First - How is this any different from any other Canadian who meets the love of their life while on vacation abroad?  I don't know about others, but I don't want special treatment on the basis of my employment.  The rules are the same for everyone.

Second - There is a 3 month waiting period (in Ontario, anyway) before medical coverage kicks in for new residents.  Private insurance can be purchased to cover that waiting period (not sure of the insurability of someone who is already pregnant)

Third - No one has mentioned that medical coverage for dependents is the domain of private insurance (Public Service Health Care, via Sun Life).  PSHC kicks in as soon as you "acquire" a dependent, as long as you do the paperwork.  Maybe there is something in our policy that covers this?  Don't know - but it's a piece of the puzzle that's missing.

 

[riggermade]

Well maybe he should have looked (more) into health coverage as she is not yet a Canadian citizen. 
I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.

Sounds like the problem is at their end.

I agree.  When my wife came to Canada in 1989 I checked all the ins and outs and what my responsibilites were going to be financailly

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Not to be harsh, but the moral of the story here is "sort out your personal admin"

 

[Teflon]

"I figured I'm Canadian, I'm in the military . . . I thought she would be covered the second we got married."

Not to harsh but due to the importance of this ie: medical coverage of new spouce, this thought could have very easily been extended to the thought of looking into this before hand and confirming coverage details.  But not being in his shoes, who am I to say I would do any different (ignoring the fact that even though my wife is and was born Canadian and I still looked into this matter before moving her from her home in Calgary to mine in Edmonton)

I would hope that after the baby is born, its health care would be provided as the baby will be Canadian.

The hospital has agreed to set up a payment plan for the Joudreys. Also, the baby will get full coverage after he is born, Cambridge said.

 

[geo]

Second - There is a 3 month waiting period (in Ontario, anyway) before medical coverage kicks in for new residents.  Private insurance can be purchased to cover that waiting period (not sure of the insurability of someone who is already pregnant)

There is a waiting period in every province.
That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.

 

[exgunnertdo]

There is a waiting period in every province.
That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.

New residents to Canada are "in limbo" for 90 days.  We have a live-in caregiver and when she arrived to Canada and applied for OHIP she was given an OHIP card, but it said right on the card that coverage started 90 days after her arrival in Canada.  She had all of her paperwork done ahead of time (criminal checks, medical checks, Visa, Work Permit) so she was considered a resident from the moment she stepped off the plane.  90 day wait period still applied.  That's where private insurance kicks in - many agencies for new immigrants will have information on this type of coverage, since every new immigrant to Canada is in this situation.

With this lady, the way I understand the rules as we muddled through them for our nanny - the 90 day wait period will kick in once her landed immigrant status is established.  At the moment, she is considered a "visitor", status to be changed to "landed immmigrant" once the paperwork is done.

 

[Blackadder1916]

"He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.

"I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."

Probably at one time, the military would have been involved in ensuring (informing the member) that such details were to be  considered.  At least, I had the experience of so briefing more than one soldier when I was still serving, but it appears that CFAO 19-27 Marriage to Foreign Nationals was cancelled in 2001.  Has anything superceded it or are soldiers now free to marry FNs without informing their CofC.

 

[riggermade]

"He may be caught in a conundrum but I believe there are people in the military chain of command who can solve his problem," Bob Butt at The Royal Canadian Legion said.

"I don't know all the details . . . But in this particular case, the military should be looking after its own."

Why should the military look after this?  He is no more special than anybody else who is considering bringing a foreign national to Canada.  He is old enough to know that he should have looked into this before he brought her to Canada, when I did it the first thing I did was contact Immigration, OHIP and whoever else I could think of that may have had an effect on our lives and pocketbooks.

Sounds to me like he is whining because they didn't plan ahead and now wants help out of a situation he caused

 

[Aerobicrunner]

There is a waiting period in every province.
That having been said, your Provincial Medicare coverage from your former province of residence looks after you till you qualify in your new province.
You aren't expected to stay in limbo those 90 days.

But this may change in Ontario if this legislation passes. 

PROPOSED LEGISLATION TO SUPPORT MILITARY FAMILIES IN ONTARIO

The McGuinty government intends to introduce legislation in support of military families that, if passed, would exempt Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) eligible military family members moving to Ontario from the waiting period for OHIP coverage, and provide job protection measures for reservists who are called into active duty. The government also plans to increase access to funding for amateur athletes from military families.

OHIP Eligibility

In most cases newcomers to Ontario are subject to a 90 day waiting period for OHIP. Canadian Forces (CF) members and their families are often required to move around frequently and this can result in constant changes to health coverage for these families. This burden can be reduced by exempting OHIP eligible family members from the waiting period and providing them with immediate access to provincially funded health care services.
The proposed act will, if passed, eliminate the OHIP waiting period for eligible military family members moving to Ontario. OHIP eligible spouses and dependants of Canadian Forces members would qualify for all provincially funded health services immediately upon becoming a resident in Ontario.
While the proposed legislation, if passed, could benefit all OHIP eligible military family members who come to Ontario, it would be of special help to families from Quebec because they often must pay fees for physician services upfront during the waiting period before being reimbursed by the Quebec government.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/media/news_releases/archives/nr_07/dec/military_families_bg_20071203.pdf

 

[riggermade]

The original post says she has not completed paperwork to become a landed immigrant, therefore she is here on a passport and is considered a visitor.  The wait period has nothing to do with this.  My wife came to Canada in may and had no status until Aug and we were fully aware of the consequenses, she got a work permit before she got landed immigrant status.  I suspect the rules have changed since 1989 but I did have to sign paperwork that I would be responsible for her for 7 years as I sponsered her to be a landed immigrant and that meant if she ran up debts, healthcare costs etc

 

[Blackadder1916]

But this may change in Ontario if this legislation passes. 

The proposed act will, if passed, eliminate the OHIP waiting period for eligible military family members moving to Ontario. OHIP eligible spouses and dependants of Canadian Forces members would qualify for all provincially funded health services immediately upon becoming a resident in Ontario.

Wouldn't apply in these circumstances.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/program/ohip/ohip_mn.html

Eligibility
Ontario residents are eligible for provincially funded health coverage (OHIP). To be eligible for Ontario health coverage you must :

be a Canadian citizen or have immigration status as set out in Ontario's Health Insurance Act, and
make your permanent and principal home in Ontario, and
be physically present in Ontario 153 days in any 12-month period.
OHIP coverage normally becomes effective three months after the date you establish residency in Ontario. The ministry strongly encourages new and returning residents to purchase private health insurance in case you become ill during the OHIP waiting period.

This from the SaskHealth website may be of interest.  http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/newcomers-benefits

Eligibility for Health Benefits

Special Classes of Newcomers
Saskatchewan Health covers health services for certain special classes of newcomers from outside Canada who move to Saskatchewan on or before the first day of the third calendar month after arriving in Canada. If you are among the groups identified below, you may be eligible for benefits from the date you move to Saskatchewan:

international students
landed immigrants
people discharged from the Canadian Forces and the RCMP
non-immigrants who are in Canada in connection with their trade or profession
returning spouse of a Canadian Forces member
returning Canadian citizens
returning residents

I guess that the operative word is "returning"

 

[Dog Walker]

Here are some stupid questions. I know it’s a long shot. 

What about her own country? Do they have health insurance in Cyprus like the rest of Europe? If so, can she make a claim to get reimbursed from them?

 

[Blackadder1916]

Most public (and private) health insurance plans do not provide coverage outside an individual's country of residence.  There may be some cross-border arrangements in Europe for adjacent countries (maybe some sort of EU regulation on the matter) but usually it is expected that travel insurance be purchased.  Even if there was standard out-of-country coverage, there may be a question whether this woman would still be considered a resident of Cyprus.  As in Canada, health coverage probably comes with legal residency, not just citizenship.

Brief Description of the Cyprus Healthcare System

 

[Gunner98]

You should take advantage of the 7 months after learning that you are pregnant to research the expenses that lie ahead.  Better yet why not before you decide to have children.

 

[Twentythousanddollarbaby]

Getting your personal orders together isn't always easy for some, when you are received different answers from different areas of the Government.  We are not asking that Calliopy receive free medical care for herself but she is caring a Canadian baby and that should count for something.  Just because the father doesn't carry the fetus doesn't mean he doesn't have any rights.  Regardless it seems a shame that Danny has to pay $20,000.00 for his son to be born in his country when that same privilege is extended to all Canadians including you and me.  It would be interested to see how many women in Calliopy's position do not receive prenatal care due to the fact they need to pay 125% of the cost for non Canadians.  Once a baby is born in Canada it is a Canadian and all of our responsibilities whether it is born healthy or god forbid didn't receive proper prenatal care and is born with a disability. 

Calliopy applied for Landed Immigrant status once she was married in Canada.  One of the requirements is for her to submit criminal checks from the countries she has lived in.  She has been waiting for those documents to come in.  Those countries are in no hurry to send those forms back.  There is a problem with our Immigration policies in this country, and lack of knowledge from those working in that field.  She received different answers to the questions she has been asking.  It's interesting to see how many people come forward with the correct answers when it's in the media. 

There was no help for this couple and at this time we had exhausted all of our options.  When I heard that my brother had to apply for a $20,000.00 loan to see his Canadian child brought into this world I felt this was very wrong.  Canadians have been supportive to this plight and have been responding positively from across the country

 

[LCIS227]

Funny how most of you state that you don't want to be harsh and such but follow through with a very narrow minded reply to this person problem.

I really don't care that he's military or not. Here's the facts:

A Canadian Citizen is having a child and wants to have the baby in Canada. A fetus is considered a "child" after 6 weeks I believe ? Where you need a death certificate and all that shabbam if there's a miscarriage. So in my mind, the father has a dependant after 6 weeks and all medical costs related to the baby should be covered by our medical system since the father is a Canadian Citizen.

By the sounds of it, a lot of you would enjoy living in the USA.

By the way, even the USA doesn't have a 125% surcharge on medical coverage to non residents.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I wonder if those that think it should be covered would feel the same if this whole scenario was from someone of Jamaican decent?

Just asking..........

 

[garb811]

When I was out of the country at an Embassy and my wife was having a child, when we returned to Canada to have the child we were charged the nonresident rate because we were not residents in the province.  The PSHCP paid the bill BUT the onus was on us to make sure everything was in place and the hospital demanded cash up front.

I would also point out that this situation is exactly the same as the one any expat Canadian would face if they were working out of the country and moved back to have the child.  We have it easy and presume that we're always going to be covered by Provincial Health care because that's what we're used to.  In some ways the family is getting off lucky, imagine the consequences of a catastrophic car accident or serious illness requiring major medical intervention and a lengthy recovery time.

Strangely enough there was another article the other day about a Canadian who brought his American wife to Canada to give birth.  He's paying too.