New Designations

[Michael Dorosh]

Just noticed a sig line in another thread and noticed RCACC was abbreviated RC(Army)CC - obviously to distinguish Air from Army.

I wonder if a redesignation wouldn't be in order?

Royal Canadian Air Force Cadets would be distinct from Royal Canadian Army Cadets.  (RCAFC and RCAC)

RCAC means Royal Canadian Armoured Corps also.

After thinking about that, it seems to me that the Army in Canada has never been Royal.  So to be in line with the big brothers,wouldn't Canadian Army Cadets (CAC) be more appropriate, and less confusing?

 

[ouyin2000]

This is a quote from the Royal Canadian Army Cadet Reference Manual - PO 402.08 (Fundamental Training - History of the RCAC) (Page 2-20)

In 1942, in recognition of the significant contribution of former cadets to the war effort, His Majesty King George VI conferred the title "Royal" on the Royal Canadian Army Cadets and accepted the appointment of "Colonel-in-Chief" of the Royal Canadian Army Cadets. HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh presently holds this appointment.

The RCAC Reference Manual may be found at http://www.cadets.ca/armcad/resources-ressources/4_e.asp

I am not sure about the Sea Cadets or Air Cadets, but this says that the Army Cadets are fully entitled to be addressed as Royal Canadian Army Cadets.

 

[Inch]

Cadets have been given Royal ascent, why remove it just because the Army never received it?

I always thought that the difference was RCACS - Royal Canadian Air Cadet Sqn and RCACC Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corps, the last letter being the indicator of what colour the boys and girls wore. So it's not really necessary to distinguish when you're talking about the units themselves.

As for RCAC, it's just on paper that causes some confusion, to see them there is no doubt who is who.

 

[Zedic_1913]

I have been taught to put it as RC(Army)CC, since RCAC is Royal Canadian Armoured Corps.  Since I am affiliated to an armoured regiment, we probably do this so as to not cause any confusion.

 

[Bean]

Inch has it right, the air types should be abbreviating RCACS, and the army folks RCACC.  The Air or Army in Brackets is often used, but not required.  That being said, different versions of the mil writing standards will contradict this.  Seems to depend on the year or revision of the manual.

 

[PViddy]

  I am not sure about the Sea Cadets or Air Cadets, but this says that the Army Cadets are fully entitled to be addressed as Royal Canadian Army Cadets.

In recognition of the significant contribution of former cadets to the war effort, His Majesty King George VI conferred the title royal to the cadet program, creating the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets, the Royal Canadian Army Cadets, and the Royal Canadian Air Cadets. It is estimated that nearly 230 000 former sea, army and air cadets served in His Majesty's forces during World War Two.

source:  DND
http://www.cadets.ca/about-nous/histo_e.asp

Until i see a memo saying that it's changed, it's always gonna be RC(Air)C [stated unit here].  Not all Air cadets have "Squadrons, thus the problem.  Some units are big enough to have a wing....ya talkin round 200 cadets...it's crazy.  So don't know that the change would work all the time.  i will give you, it would be a ton easier to determine between the 3 elements if we used a new abbreiviation and less writing too.  Especially since Sea Cadets as well as Army both use "Corps".


PV

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Good points all around, thanks for the answers, gents.

As for Sea Cadet "Corps"... I guess RCSCC is different enough.  No need to change the title, though if you wanted to be more in line with naval reserve units you could, I suppose, have Her Majesty's Canadian Sea Cadet Corps UNDAUNTED.  (HMCSCC ?)

RCACC and RCACS work for me - so are there units smaller than squadrons in the air cadets?  You identify Wings - wouldn't a wing simply be divided into two or more squadrons?

 

[ouyin2000]

as far as i know (in Pac Reg) each unit (whether sea cadet corps, air cadet squadron, or army cadet corps) has a unit number, and is called a Corps or Squadron (depending on the element) no matter how many flights/platoons/divisions they are parading

 

[Spartan]

(though If I remember correctly - all/most army cadet units have a 4 digit number prefix - air only has 3 or less)

Cadet units are numbered according to order of formation.  #1 was the first...1188 the 1188th etc.

 

[alan_li_13]

The only confusion I see between RCACC and RCACS is when you have an Engineer/Comms Sqn - I've seen them address themselves as RCACS and it can provide for some confusion

Incorrect. Army Cadet corps affiliated with the Engineers or Sigs are still corps. Similar to Armoured corps, they can be split into smaller units which are squadrons.

(though If I remember correctly - all/most army cadet units have a 4 digit number prefix - air only has 3 or less)

Nope, living proof: i'm from 337 Queen's York Rangers Royal Canadian (Army) Cadet Corp. Our buddies the Tor Scots next to us is numbered 75 RC(A)CC

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I'm 748 here in Markham, and there are corps like #2, #7 and #9

 

[JimmyPeeOn]

Actually all branches of the service were at one point given royal ascent.  Even today some units still carry it eg "Royal Canadian Regiment" "1.2.5 R.C.H.A" "Royal Canadian Dragoons" and once "Royal Canadian Corps of Sigs".

 

[PViddy]

You identify Wings - wouldn't a wing simply be divided into two or more squadrons?

Correct.  A wing does consist of two or more Squadron's and what they usually do is just create a new unit somwhere else if a Air Cadet Squadron is parading 180 + cadtes for a year or two.  So eventually the size will be cut but in the meantime with that many people they are technically not of Squadron size.  An example of this recently was in the Oshawa and maybe the GTA area of Ontario (from talking to members of said units while on course-correct me if i am worng please).

Having said that, it's a tiny technical issue, i am sure they are not gonna rush an create new shoulder flashes just for a year or two of a rather large quota.  I am also not even sure if a unit can have the title of "wing" officially on paper.  if i had my choice and we did go to a new abreiviations, i would say to said humugeous units "suck it up!" 


regards

PV

 

[yoman]

My unit is a Wing . We have 2 Squadron`s with 2 flights of about 30 cadets in each squadron and 1 band and 1 flag party for the hole wing. This is pretty new to me cause we were only designated a wing yesterday but when the WO1 calls us he says ''Wing'' instead of ''Squadron'' so maybe its called a wing on paper. All know more next week.

 

[big_castor]

Wings use to be part of the official organisation of the Air Cadets : A Wing was comprised of at least 3 Squadron  with a minimum of 225 cadets.  For example, the 3 Canadair Squadrons (588, 592, 621) use to be part of no16 Wing. Provisions where made for a Wing HQ with the positions of Wing Commander, Wing Adjutant, Supply Officer and Training Officer, Wing Chaplain etc...

There are no more Wing in our organisations: a large Squadron may call itself a Wing, parade has a â Å“Wingâ ? with â Å“Squadronsâ ? instead of flights but that unofficial : it's just a big Squadron.   

 

[PViddy]

what i suspected.

PV

 

[yoman]

But the funny thing my CO said that we have to maintaine are current quota to maintain are "Wing" designation. I dought its just a thing that are staff decided to cal us that sir because a whole bunch of peaple just got promoted to WO2 and Flight Seargent wich would pass the maximum allowed for 1 squadron. We know have something like 7 WO's and 6  Flight Seargent's. I will find out how this new "Wing" will operated next week so I will let you know.

 

[Burrows]

Cadet corps/squadrons are numbered according to formation.  #1 would be the first cadet corps and 1188 would the the 1188th.

 

[Zedic_1913]

An example of this recently was in the Oshawa and maybe the GTA area of Ontario (from talking to members of said units while on course-correct me if i am worng please).

You mean they split 151 Chadburn?   When did this happen?   I'm from Oshawa, but we don't really hear much from 151.

 

[PViddy]

Well, this is all "i heard from a guy that heard from his sister's aunt's friend's mother" stuff.  But i don't think they split chadburn, with all that development around that area i think they just created another unit, then people from huge Squadron's co thtere instead etc.  I don't know for sure, but 151 sure is pretty big.

PV