New Dress Regs 🤣

[Kat Stevens]

The military has seen fit to create an entire L1 organization devoted to culture change. Why? Because even at the highest levels they're acknowledging that many aspects of military culture are fundamentally broken, and inherently toxic. This is a good example of exactly what it is that we need to fix.

No, it's not new. It is, however, wrong. Poor policies and terrible leadership don't become better just because you keep doing them for a long enough period of time.

Well now I just feel terrible about myself. I’m going to have to climb into my hammock with a six pack of beer and some Queensryche in the earbuds and reflect on my role in degrading the armed forces. Thank you for this moment of clarity. Truly.

 

[markppcli]

Well now I just feel terrible about myself. I’m going to have to climb into my hammock with a six pack of beer and reflect on my role in degrading the armed forces. Thank you for this moment of clarity. Truly.

Where did he say that? He just pointed out using duties to putatively “encourage” people to spend out of pocket on a belt is probably not the culture we ought to strive for. Especially when that clothing item isn’t mandated in the dress regulations, that’s a senior NCO applying a standard in their own, to the financial detriment of their troops.

I’d read the “you” in their comment as a global, organizational “you,” vice a personal you.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[

Wait, do you not think army.ca has a bad reputation?

Oh I know, I've seen it. I've also seen some people passing on that army.ca baaaad mantra haven't even registered here, just regurgitate what they see other people say. Real followes seeking approval.

The fact that Mods on here are willing to insult members is… problematic.

Insult them back.

Regarding the echo chamber, there are maybe two dissenting opinions on this thread.

That happens. If you do some looking you'll find Liberal posters, and people who openly talk about voting liberal. No one calls them names.

You'll also see pro-life opinions. This is probably one of the few places where you'll see a cordial pro life/pro choice debate without people spazzing out.

I’d be stunned if at 36 I wasn’t one of the youngest here

See my previous comments.

 

[markppcli]

[
Oh I know, I've seen it. I've also seen some people passing on that army.ca baaaad mantra haven't even registered here, just regurgitate what they see other people say. Real followes seeking approval.


Insult them back.


That happens. If you do some looking you'll find Liberal posters, and people who openly talk about voting liberal. No one calls them names.

You'll also see pro-life opinions. This is probably one of the few places where you'll see a cordial pro life/pro choice debate without people spazzing out.


See my previous comments.

Insult them back - truly the road map to polite, intelligent discourse.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Well now I just feel terrible about myself. I’m going to have to climb into my hammock with a six pack of beer and some Queensryche in the earbuds and reflect on my role in degrading the armed forces. Thank you for this moment of clarity. Truly.

Earbuds for your yellow Sony anti-skip CD Walkman.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Where did he say that? He just pointed out using duties to putatively “encourage” people to spend out of pocket on a belt is probably not the culture we ought to strive for. Especially when that clothing item isn’t mandated in the dress regulations, that’s a senior NCO applying a standard in their own, to the financial detriment of their troops.

Clearly you weren’t there. An SNCO? You need to aim several tiers of bossdome higher when it came to making these kind of calls. As an aside, you need to unwind your panties a bit. If you can’t tell when someone is having a bit of fun here, it may be time to put your applicable brain leaching device beyond arms reach for a while.

 

[markppcli]

Clearly you weren’t there. An SNCO? You need to aim several tiers of bossdome higher when it came to making these kind of calls. As an aside, you need to unwind your panties a bit. If you can’t tell when someone is having a bit of fun here, it may be time to put your applicable brain leaching device beyond arms reach for a while.

Sure, that’s about as reasonable a response as the last one. I’m just going what you described, but hey clearly being mad at people on the internet is what getting you through your day so enjoy that.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Sure, that’s about as reasonable a response as the last one. I’m just going what you described, but hey clearly being mad at people on the internet is what getting you through your day so enjoy that.

Mad at you?? I don’t give enough of a shit about you to be mad at you. I’m having some fun, you do you.

 

[markppcli]

Mad at you?? I don’t give enough of a shit about you to be mad at you. I’m having some fun, you do you.

Yeah you use insulting language, have a little pout, seem very calm.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Oh you guys let a lot more go; for example the member on here who said the majority of trans people would be worthless to the CAF didn’t even get a warning from what I can tell. I digress.

Yeah I come here for talks about structure and equipment, and frankly the CAF subreddit has become something of a quagmire of negativity. I laughed pretty hard when they started talking about MCpls as “higher.” Anyways I was merely pointing out some realities and perspective.

You will note I said that they are not worth actively pursuing and if someone who identifies as Trans applies, they should go through the same process as everyone else. I stand by my statement that based on medical studies that purposely recruiting a larger number will impact on the military healthcare system and lessen the ability of the CAF to be able to go out and fight either a conventional, Peacekeeping or COIN type operation. So exactly what should I get a warning about?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not much you will do, is there??
You'd best stay in the CAF,....I have my doubts any civi employer would put up with you.

My post was harsh, and especially since being a Mod I'm supposed to be better, but please tell me where a bank/restaurant/ car sales would let you come in in short shorts and a ripped t-shirt and say " We not spending our money on looking good for you". You would be gone......dispute that please.

 

[markppcli]

You will note I said that they are not worth actively pursuing and if someone who identifies as Trans applies, they should go through the same process as everyone else. I stand by my statement that based on medical studies that purposely recruiting a larger number will impact on the military healthcare system and lessen the ability of the CAF to be able to go out and fight either a conventional, Peacekeeping or COIN type operation. So exactly what should I get a warning about?

Well what you said was this
“ I also be blunt and say that the majority of trans people I have met are not worth the logistical and mental health costs to actively recruit.”
If you said “we shouldn’t recruit people with medical / mental health issues” I’d agree. We shouldn’t take on those costs. But you didn’t, you reached out specifically for trans people for some reason; and implied that they’re worth was lower than others. That kinda of thinking, and talk doesn’t fly in the CAF anymore. The fact that the only person to hold that language to account was actually the subject of ten pages of being called a bigot himself is a fine example of why we need a culture change. All that being said I’m well aware I’m not going to change you, or anyone else’s thinking on this.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I’d pay good money to see you in booty shorts, Monkhouse.

 

[markppcli]

My post was harsh, and especially since being a Mod I'm supposed to be better, but please tell me where a bank/restaurant/ car sales would let you come in in short shorts and a ripped t-shirt and say " We not spending our money on looking good for you". You would be gone......dispute that please.

That’s a disingenuous, a bank won’t tell you to wear an exact piece of clothing only available from one source, with a very specific set of parameters for its wear. We expect people to dress to an exacting standar in the clothing we issue them, we ought to be able to deliver on that. That being said I always take my stuff to a tailor personally, I just ball at the idea that someone refusing to makes them a bad soldier / person.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I’d pay good money to see you in booty shorts, Monkhouse.

I saw a pic today just like that playing VB in Gagetown. Lucky for you its too dark to really see......today I'd have to decide what side to tuck the boys into.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That’s a disingenuous, a bank won’t tell you to wear an exact piece of clothing only available from one source, with a very specific set of parameters for its wear. We expect people to dress to an exacting standar in the clothing we issue them, we ought to be able to deliver on that. That being said I always take my stuff to a tailor personally, I just ball at the idea that someone refusing to makes them a bad soldier / person.

And you missed the point totally,....you PAY for those clothes you're wearing at the bank,....and they still get to enforce dress and deportment. My point from the start...

 

[markppcli]

And you missed the point totally,....you PAY for those clothes you're wearing at the bank,....and they still get to enforce dress and deportment. My point from the start...

And you missed my point; if we force you to wear X, in a way no bank ever could, and only X then we ought to provide the services required for it.

I’ll give an example, an ex of mine worked for Fairmont at the Hotel McDonald. It had an exact outfit you were to wear if you worked front desk. In order to ensure it’s care they provided the laundry servicing and tailoring to make sure their front desk presented the correct image.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The fact that the only person to hold that language to account was actually the subject of ten pages of being called a bigot himself

Mark you seem like a nice guy but you also seem like you have a serious case of selective memory.

Why don't you go back and see who started the whole bigot thing.

 

[markppcli]

Mark you seem like a nice guy but you also seem like you have a serious case of selective memory.

Why don't you go back and see who started the whole bigot thing.

Saying “trans people aren’t worth x” is a bigoted statement. Doesn’t mean the speaker is inherently a bigot, just that they have some perspectives. Calling out that comment as bigoted and then being attacked for it is exactly what happened. Frankly anyone that’s still in the CAF and was part of that exchange should try hard to remember the bystander training they clicked through.

 

[Good2Golf]

That’s a disingenuous, a bank won’t tell you to wear an exact piece of clothing only available from one source, with a very specific set of parameters for its wear. We expect people to dress to an exacting standar in the clothing we issue them, we ought to be able to deliver on that. That being said I always take my stuff to a tailor personally, I just ball at the idea that someone refusing to makes them a bad soldier / person.

There are some industries where there is indeed an expected standard of uniform-like dress and one isn’t reimbursed the cost of suits/ties/shirts/shoes/etc. and the cost isn’t insignificant. Any money I spent in the CAF for either consumables (like polish) or some servicing/alterations to issued clothing to make it fit more professionally, particularly when interacting with public (Govt or citizens) pales to the (does some quick math…) thousands and thousands (probably into 5-digits) invested for conducting work in private industry.

Should issued uniforms fit properly and the CAF member not be out of pocket by an impactful amount? Yes. That said, holding stocks in half-inch increments to ensure as modification-free issue as possible likely isn’t the answer either. There needs to be a reasonable mid-ground where the majority of the costs are borne by the organization, but modest cost by the member, if they do chose to optimize their appearance, isn’t unreasonable.