New Dress Regs 🤣

[OldSolduer]

Great point.

The things that Chiefs have typically lost their minds about - badges in the wrong spots, medals in the wrong order, not wearing a hat, imperfect hair, imperfect shoes - are, funnily enough, not the things that members would be negatively judged upon. The latter, being more noticeable to non-military folks, would be fashion fails like oversized jackets, awfully fitted shirts, and tight pants that squeeze your ass and package into disturbingly suggestive forms.

Those will make you look ridiculous to the uninitiated. So will some funny styles that'll come out of HAIRFORGEN, yet those will also be met with a shrug as they won't be in violation of policy anymore.

Former RSM here - that is the job of the RSM,MWOs WOs and NCOs. We take pride in how our unit appears and try to have the soldiers emulate that. It also instills a sense of discipline.

It works and has for centuries.

 

[TacticalTea]

Former RSM here - that is the job of the RSM,MWOs WOs and NCOs. We take pride in how our unit appears and try to have the soldiers emulate that. It also instills a sense of discipline.

It works and has for centuries.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, here. Care to point it out?

I get that the first elements of dress I mentioned need to be in order. Just saying that's not what the civies will notice.

 

[FSTO]

My girlfriend who has no idea about the military can spot an ill fitting uniform from a mile away and automatically has a negative opinion of the wearer.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, here. Care to point it out?

I get that the first elements of dress I mentioned need to be in order. Just saying that's not what the civies will notice.

I’m saying it was my job to be the picky sob to make sure the troops were properly turned out.

And civvies notice.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well what you said was this
“ I also be blunt and say that the majority of trans people I have met are not worth the logistical and mental health costs to actively recruit.”
If you said “we shouldn’t recruit people with medical / mental health issues” I’d agree. We shouldn’t take on those costs. But you didn’t, you reached out specifically for trans people for some reason; and implied that they’re worth was lower than others. That kinda of thinking, and talk doesn’t fly in the CAF anymore. The fact that the only person to hold that language to account was actually the subject of ten pages of being called a bigot himself is a fine example of why we need a culture change. All that being said I’m well aware I’m not going to change you, or anyone else’s thinking on this.

and you want to actively recruit people who are in general in a more fragile state, into a job that routinely breaks even very healthy people? Your not doing them any favours. There are lots of opportunities to serve their country through the Civil Service, which would be a much healthier choice for them and can accommodate them better. And the part you neglected to add is if a Trans can get through the current selection process, then all the power to them, but I disagree sharply on spending time and money trying to recruit from that pool.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I've ever quite understood those who join a, for want of a better term, 'homogenizing' organization then expect that their individuality should shine through. It's not the member's image that is at stake, it's the organization's. They have changed the rules. I hope they are right in their assessment.

In law enforcement, pretty much everybody quietly toes the line at the recruit and probationary stage. Once members get more confidence and experience, some start to walk away from the line. Some channel that into being some of the finest u/c and investigative personal you can find; others spend the rest of their career being a low output organizational PITA.

*****

I don't care if he is the best damned appliance repair guy in town, he ain't getting through my front door to fix my stove:

View attachment 72147

He looks like the rabble that is the Veterans Motorcycle Group/Club/Whatever that likes to show up the Nov 11t and then go hang around Tim Hortons.

 

[KevinB]

and you want to actively recruit people who are in general in a more fragile state, into a job that routinely breaks even very healthy people? Your not doing them any favours. There are lots of opportunities to serve their country through the Civil Service, which would be a much healthier choice for them and can accommodate them better. And the part you neglected to add is if a Trans can get through the current selection process, then all the power to them, but I disagree sharply on spending time and money trying to recruit from that pool.

I think the same goes for any high risk medical or mental health issues. That is simply common sense not active discrimination.

Active discrimination would be tailoring recruitment to ignore those sort of people. I still think one should screen for mental and health issues during recruiting, and that may pass over some applicants, as well as encourage others to self select out of that.

WRT the issue of the uniform.
One used to get an allowance (I’m years out of the CAF so no idea if clothing allowance is still a thing). That was to ensure one could get haircuts, shoe polish, and to tailor and dry clean uniforms.

The SNCO corps was in charge of that sort of thing. Usually it started with subtle points from the Sect Commander or WO, but sometimes the CSM would be required to counsel members, and god help someone that the RSM found still wanting.

Of course it only works if the SNCO’s don’t look like a collective Bag if Shit too. If that happens, you have already lost.

 

[Navy_Pete]

My girlfriend who has no idea about the military can spot an ill fitting uniform from a mile away and automatically has a negative opinion of the wearer.

I think ill fitting DEUs are the norm, not the exception.

The new ones are so cheap I'm not going to bother taking it out to get tailored (for free, at the base tailors); I guess it's a good thing I learned to hem pants.

 

[FSTO]

I think ill fitting DEUs are the norm, not the exception.

The new ones are so cheap I'm not going to bother taking it out to get tailored (for free, at the base tailors); I guess it's a good thing I learned to hem pants.

Yes that is an issue. Just like the sweaters, absolute garbage.

 

[FSTO]

I think the same goes for any high risk medical or mental health issues. That is simply common sense not active discrimination.

Active discrimination would be tailoring recruitment to ignore those sort of people. I still think one should screen for mental and health issues during recruiting, and that may pass over some applicants, as well as encourage others to self select out of that.

WRT the issue of the uniform.
One used to get an allowance (I’m years out of the CAF so no idea if clothing allowance is still a thing). That was to ensure one could get haircuts, shoe polish, and to tailor and dry clean uniforms.

The SNCO corps was in charge of that sort of thing. Usually it started with subtle points from the Sect Commander or WO, but sometimes the CSM would be required to counsel members, and god help someone that the RSM found still wanting.

Of course it only works if the SNCO’s don’t look like a collective Bag if Shit too. If that happens, you have already lost.

The points system replaced the allowance because according to a SYO buddy of mine there was DEU clothing sitting on the shelves not getting used. The quality of the garments has certainly not improved over the years.

 

[lenaitch]

He looks like the rabble that is the Veterans Motorcycle Group/Club/Whatever that likes to show up the Nov 11t and then go hang around Tim Hortons.

Law enforcement has it too. Members retire and it seems the first thing they do is grow hair, buy a bike and leathers and t-shirts. I get that retirement is a 'new chapter' and you get to do stuff your didn't have the time or opportunity to do when working, but some newly retired members do seem to go a little nuts.

Maybe I'm a little different. I've been riding pretty much straight since I was 15. I fully enjoy it but it is far from being a novelty, and I have no desire to look like a biker or pirate.

 

[Furniture]

I think ill fitting DEUs are the norm, not the exception.

The new ones are so cheap I'm not going to bother taking it out to get tailored (for free, at the base tailors); I guess it's a good thing I learned to hem pants.

I'd argue that not getting DEUs at all is the new norm... Since March I have not had DEUs, and having just seen a picture of a parade held at NFS(P), it looks like I am far from the only one without DEUs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the same goes for any high risk medical or mental health issues. That is simply common sense not active discrimination.

Active discrimination would be tailoring recruitment to ignore those sort of people. I still think one should screen for mental and health issues during recruiting, and that may pass over some applicants, as well as encourage others to self select out of that.

WRT the issue of the uniform.
One used to get an allowance (I’m years out of the CAF so no idea if clothing allowance is still a thing). That was to ensure one could get haircuts, shoe polish, and to tailor and dry clean uniforms.

The SNCO corps was in charge of that sort of thing. Usually it started with subtle points from the Sect Commander or WO, but sometimes the CSM would be required to counsel members, and god help someone that the RSM found still wanting.

Of course it only works if the SNCO’s don’t look like a collective Bag if Shit too. If that happens, you have already lost.

I think a lot of this has to do with a desire to look like SOF for a lot of people. Long hair, big beards in a mish mash of Tactical Tailor and store bought kit...

I used to find it perplexing that in AFG SOF stood out like a sore thumb. Seemed counter intuitive to the intent which was to blend in and be a grey man.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'd argue that not getting DEUs at all is the new norm... Since March I have not had DEUs, and having just seen a picture of a parade held at NFS(P), it looks like I am far from the only one without DEUs.

I can imagine; I had a pair of pants on backorder for almost a year, and still waiting on some new oxfords. Not a big deal while still working from home, but with the poor quality don't see the shirts lasting too long. Will see about the pants, but I doubt that they will last as long as the original pair I got in basic, which I only had to retire as they stopped fitting around my quads.

 

[Quirky]

The CAF as a whole has largely put too much emphasis on aesthetics, to a degree that it detracts from our actual mandates IMHO.

That's the problem, the CAF is lost and hasn't been given direction in years. We are wandering around in the dark trying to keep busy. If we were involved in a conflict or actual mandates, we wouldn't have time for these dress/appearance boards and pet projects.

 

[OldSolduer]

Law enforcement has it too. Members retire and it seems the first thing they do is grow hair, buy a bike and leathers and t-shirts. I get that retirement is a 'new chapter' and you get to do stuff your didn't have the time or opportunity to do when working, but some newly retired members do seem to go a little nuts.

Maybe I'm a little different. I've been riding pretty much straight since I was 15. I fully enjoy it but it is far from being a novelty, and I have no desire to look like a biker or pirate.

I never went through the “biker” phase. I spent too much time dealing with real bikers to want to emulate them

 

[Eye In The Sky]

They get the clothes for free, spend a few bucks and take them to a tailor y’a cheap bastards! I tailor the shirts myself.

But that’s the Canadian way isn’t it? Being cheap, ineffective and look like a sack of shit all at the same time.

Why would 70k employees start paying for something their employer has deemed unimportant? If the CAF is happy how I look in my DEU shirts (I can get pants and tunics done on my Wing in a 2ish week timeline)...well, so I am.

I also stopped wasting my own time polishing ankle boots that are not properly made to handle shining with polish.

 

[Remius]

Why would 70k employees start paying for something their employer has deemed unimportant? If the CAF is happy how I look in my DEU shirts (I can get pants and tunics done on my Wing in a 2ish week timeline)...well, so I am.

I also stopped wasting my own time polishing ankle boots that are not properly made to handle shining with polish.

I hate those boots.

 

[QV]

When I served everyone I respected was fighting fit and when in DEUs they made sure they looked highly turned out.

I can't understand why anyone would accept looking like a sh**bag.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I WAS one of those types who spent their own money, often:

I bought the Regt buckle for the garrison dress...only to then have the belts removed and then later the whole uniform;
I bought my rank badges for the green/tan shirt when I was in the Reserves;
I bought a ranger blanket, because the CAF didn't provide but the CANEX sure sold them;
I bought the american rain jacket for the field because ours sucked serious ass;
I bought Matterhorn and jungle boots, and my own GORTEX socks before they were issued to everyone who goes to the field;
I bought my own kit for my survival kit for the CRAPVEST for IMPACT at about $200 before the CAF could provide LPSVs (that they still fucked up);
I and many others paid for decent desert boots off Shoeme.ca etc for deployments because the steel toe cripplers would get people captured or killed in a E & E situation.
I bought my own multi-colour/lens flashlight, because the issued one is shit and white only.

I could list about 50-75 other things I know I've bought that should have been provided.

I will not pay to have a SS or LS DEU shit tailored. Ever. yes, it looks like a light blue single-person tent out of the package. I've paid for enough stuff in my 33 years...I'm done.

Those of you who are shitting on anyone like me ...go shit on your superiors and get them to change the DEU system and/or add funding for tailoring. It's not my fault, so my "net income" isn't the fucking solution.

Honest to fuck...shitting on members for crappy items the system issues that they won't pay for themselves. Un-fucking-belieable.