New Dress Regs 🤣

[FSTO]

Are backpacks required to be slung over both shoulders?

A backpack can be worn slung over both shoulders, or over the left shoulder; this leaves the right arm free to salute.

Huzzah! Sanity at last!!!

 

[coolintheshade]

Huzzah! Sanity at last!!!

IKR.....lol

 

[QV]

People that are attracted to military life aren't usually the ones too fussed about face tats and purple hair. The dress regs could have been updated, but doing it to this extent is just theatre and will probably cause more problems than it solves.

 

[Halifax Tar]

People that are attracted to military life aren't usually the ones too fussed about face tats and purple hair.

* SOF/Divers/NTOG/JTFX/All special people enter the chat *

 

[coolintheshade]

* SOF/Divers/NTOG/JTFX/All special people enter the chat *

All wearing Cargo pants, swat boots and ball cap to 'blend in'. lol

 

[rmc_wannabe]

All wearing Cargo pants, swat boots and ball cap to 'blend in'. lol

Fun story:

Later on in my tour in Afghan, I worked with a bunch of Locals on Camp. They were general labour types, but a lot of them were educated and trying to get better jobs.

On the way to our compound, we would pass numerous other ones within KAF. They were able to rhyme off without fail all the nation's, units, etc. that were in each compound.

When we would pass the ... more special....compound, they'd all start laughing. I asked my interpreter what was up, and he said they just find it hilarious the lengths these "SOF" pers go to "blend in" when they stick out like sore thumbs compared to everyone else.

If they were to throw on normal uniforms and headress, they'd look like your average faceless grunt; most would be unable to tell if you were a cook, engineer, clerk, or recce sniper. The second they had the beards, tactical flows, and a 5.11 chest rig with cargo shorts, the jig is up.

 

[btrudy]

Huzzah! Sanity at last!!!

... but that part was introduced years ago.

People that are attracted to military life aren't usually the ones too fussed about face tats and purple hair. The dress regs could have been updated, but doing it to this extent is just theatre and will probably cause more problems than it solves.

Given our current recruitment and retention issues, I think it is quite clear that we need to put in effort to expand our recruiting pool beyond those who are just already "attracted to military life". This change can be a part of that initiative.

More to the point, I think it is overall more helpful to stop acting like a career in the military needs to become an all encompassing part of your lifestyle (including affects on appearance when off duty). Treat it more like a career and make it worth people's while instead of expecting to get a bunch of people who'll want to make it their entire life busting down our doors.

 

[FSTO]

but that part was introduced years ago.

Thanks Poindexter, I'm not nearly as invested as you in the dress regulations.

 

[Quirky]

The dress regs could have been updated, but doing it to this extent is just theatre and will probably cause more problems than it solves.

Exactly. This will attract a very small minority and alienate your base recruitment group - white males, who will find these new changes ridiculous. God speed CAF, it can’t get any worse, right?

 

[QV]

... but that part was introduced years ago.


Given our current recruitment and retention issues, I think it is quite clear that we need to put in effort to expand our recruiting pool beyond those who are just already "attracted to military life". This change can be a part of that initiative.

More to the point, I think it is overall more helpful to stop acting like a career in the military needs to become an all encompassing part of your lifestyle (including affects on appearance when off duty). Treat it more like a career and make it worth people's while instead of expecting to get a bunch of people who'll want to make it their entire life busting down our doors.

Recruiting and retention has very little to do with pink hair and what shoulder you wear your backpack on. Those are minor dissatisfiers. The larger problems are related to training, equipment, leadership issues.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Recruiting and retention has very little to do with pink hair and what shoulder you wear your backpack on. Those are minor dissatisfiers. The larger problems are related to training, equipment, leadership issues.

Much like our burgeoning new firearms legislation this more about optics than effect. Its the low hanging fruit that can be pointed too as taking action.

 

[btrudy]

Recruiting and retention has very little to do with pink hair and what shoulder you wear your backpack on. Those are minor dissatisfiers. The larger problems are related to training, equipment, leadership issues.

It's less about the specifics of pink or purple or whatever.

What it is primarily about is crafting an institution which is inherently as welcoming to people from all walks of life as possible. Removing any and all barriers that would make people think to themselves "maybe people like me aren't really accepted", whether they might be thinking that because of their neon green hair or the fact that they'd need to keep writing a memo and asking the CO permission every time they're posted to be able to wear their hair in accordance with their faith.

Exactly. This will attract a very small minority and alienate your base recruitment group - white males, who will find these new changes ridiculous. God speed CAF, it can’t get any worse, right?

We are very specifically trying to expand the "base recruitment group", so that others will feel welcome. The original dress instructions when they were written were very much done so viewing young white males as the model, and dealt with others as a deviation from that norm.


Tha attitude both isn't acceptable from a moral standpoint, and also really isn't working anymore. We absolutely need to change ourselves so that we can be seen as an employer of choice by other demographic groups as well.

 

[QV]

After a few decades in the CAF my experience has been that the CAF was/is very welcoming to all types and kinds. We were all treated equally shitty in the beginning for very necessary reasons. The CAF is a great institution only damaged by political meddling and the odd bad apple.

 

[Remius]

It's less about the specifics of pink or purple or whatever.

What it is primarily about is crafting an institution which is inherently as welcoming to people from all walks of life as possible. Removing any and all barriers that would make people think to themselves "maybe people like me aren't really accepted", whether they might be thinking that because of their neon green hair or the fact that they'd need to keep writing a memo and asking the CO permission every time they're posted to be able to wear their hair in accordance with their faith.



We are very specifically trying to expand the "base recruitment group", so that others will feel welcome. The original dress instructions when they were written were very much done so viewing young white males as the model, and dealt with others as a deviation from that norm.


Tha attitude both isn't acceptable from a moral standpoint, and also really isn't working anymore. We absolutely need to change ourselves so that we can be seen as an employer of choice by other demographic groups as well.

I’m a white male. These dress regs don’t affect me one way or another. It won’t make me quit nor will it keep me in.

Want to be an employer of choice? How about we change that to want to join a force that matters. Right now it doesn’t seem like we as a force matter.

What makes me want to quit is wasting my time on half assed training that leads to poor skills and ineffectiveness. When I can’t bring a weapons det out with my platoons because all our guns are so old and broken and not replaced or can barely get ammo to do what we need to do to get better that makes me want to quit.

I’m not embarrassed by pink hair. I’m embarrassed that I have to tell troops that everything is notional.

We want to become an inclusive military. I have no issues with that. I take issue with the fact that we are barely a military in the first place. How about we fix that first.

 

[FSTO]

We want to become an inclusive military. I have no issues with that. I take issue with the fact that we are barely a military in the first place. How about we fix that first.

THAT is the crux of the issue. All Canadian kids see is that our gear is broken, our military is short people, our government leaders seem not to care and there seems to be no indications that those 3 things are changing anytime soon. Why would any kid think about joining this clown show.

 

[btrudy]

I’m a white male. These dress regs don’t affect me one way or another. It won’t make me quit nor will it keep me in.

Want to be an employer of choice? How about we change that to want to join a force that matters. Right now it doesn’t seem like we as a force matter.

What makes me want to quit is wasting my time on half assed training that leads to poor skills and ineffectiveness. When I can’t bring a weapons det out with my platoons because all our guns are so old and broken and not replaced or can barely get ammo to do what we need to do to get better that makes me want to quit.

I’m not embarrassed by pink hair. I’m embarrassed that I have to tell troops that everything is notional.

We want to become an inclusive military. I have no issues with that. I take issue with the fact that we are barely a military in the first place. How about we fix that first.

Might I kindly suggest we fix both? Changing the dress instructions will have literally no impact on the state of our equipment, etc.

But it will help out quite a bit at making folks who don't fit the current mold as well as you do in feeling a part of the team.

After a few decades in the CAF my experience has been that the CAF was/is very welcoming to all types and kinds. We were all treated equally shitty in the beginning for very necessary reasons. The CAF is a great institution only damaged by political meddling and the odd bad apple.

I call BS on that. Quite a bit of the treating everyone shitty is not at all necessary. The institution puts up barriers and regulations and enforces a hierarchical power structure which both protects "bad apples", but also largely aids in producing them to boot.

It is not a coincidence that a large chunk of the worst assholes I've ever met had also been promoted to positions of power in the CAF.

 

[Remius]

Might I kindly suggest we fix both? Changing the dress instructions will have literally no impact on the state of our equipment, etc.

But it will help out quite a bit at making folks who don't fit the current mold as well as you do in feeling a part of the team.



I call BS on that. Quite a bit of the treating everyone shitty is not at all necessary. The institution puts up barriers and regulations and enforces a hierarchical power structure which both protects "bad apples", but also largely aids in producing them to boot.

It is not a coincidence that a large chunk of the worst assholes I've ever met had also been promoted to positions of power in the CAF.

Inclusion has always been a goal of the CAF believe it or not. It’s why we modified the dress regs for turbans, burkas, aboriginal hair, etc etc. We’ve had vegetarian, halal and kosher food options for decades now. I think this is what QV is alluding to.

The stuff in the current regs is about esthetic choices that have nothing to do with race, religion, gender etc etc. As I said, I don’t care one way or another.

Back in the early 2000s we were one of the only gvt organisations that was actually meeting its aboriginal hiring targets.

So inclusion is nothing new. It’s ongoing,

As for doing both I agree. But until I see a pistol in my hand that wasn’t at Ortona or an updated “why we exist” policy papers I will lament that we aren’t focusing on more important stuff.

 

[Weinie]

Might I kindly suggest we fix both? Changing the dress instructions will have literally no impact on the state of our equipment, etc.

But it will help out quite a bit at making folks who don't fit the current mold as well as you do in feeling a part of the team.



I call BS on that. Quite a bit of the treating everyone shitty is not at all necessary. The institution puts up barriers and regulations and enforces a hierarchical power structure which both protects "bad apples", but also largely aids in producing them to boot.

It is not a coincidence that a large chunk of the worst assholes I've ever met had also been promoted to positions of power in the CAF.

And I call BS on that. If your only exposure to the real world has been the CAF, then welcome to reality, Johnnie. Your disdain is noted, but not really relevant.

 

[btrudy]

Inclusion has always been a goal of the CAF believe it or not. It’s why we modified the dress regs for turbans, burkas, aboriginal hair, etc etc. We’ve had vegetarian, halal and kosher food options for decades now. I think this is what QV is alluding to.

The stuff in the current regs is about esthetic choices that have nothing to do with race, religion, gender etc etc. As I said, I don’t care one way or another.

Back in the early 2000s we were one of the only gvt organisations that was actually meeting its aboriginal hiring targets.

So inclusion is nothing new. It’s ongoing,

As for doing both I agree. But until I see a pistol in my hand that wasn’t at Ortona or an updated “why we exist” policy papers I will lament that we aren’t focusing on more important stuff.

"Inclusion" does not solely refer to race, religion, gender, etc. There are a wide variety of people who would feel unwelcome for reasons u related to those under the old regulations, who will now instead not need to change anything about themselves to fit in.

Thus the new regulations are inherently far more inclusive.


I'd also argue the old rules did a shitty job of providing accommodations for religion, etc, given the requirement to re-request said accommodations every time someone was posted.

 

[QV]

I call BS on that. Quite a bit of the treating everyone shitty is not at all necessary. The institution puts up barriers and regulations and enforces a hierarchical power structure which both protects "bad apples", but also largely aids in producing them to boot.

It is not a coincidence that a large chunk of the worst assholes I've ever met had also been promoted to positions of power in the CAF.

By "treating everyone shitty" I meant the rigors of basic training and battle school for example. You know, when someone yells at you for any reason whatsoever in the training environment? That weeded out a lot of people that needed to be weeded out.

The "bad leadership" equation is another topic altogether and I agree there is that too, just like any other organization the world over.