New Dress Regs 🤣

[lenaitch]

Some of the goals of drill are to get an otherwise disparate group of recent civilian individuals, where such requirements are not normally important, to function in unity, and to instill the need to follow commands when they are given; not slightly before or slightly after - exactly as instructed at the moment commanded. Admittedly, it might be of somewhat less significant than in the days of standing lines of battle and volley fire.

I've not been through military training, but police recruit training back in the day seemed, by all accounts, to have many similarities. Instructors had a limited amount of time to try to turn you into something you were not and impart skills that could perhaps, I don't know, save your life. Once that bridge had been crossed, training became much less 'confrontational'. Some might argue that is even more relevant today. Back in the day, there was generally much more deference to authority and respect for those with skills and knowledge to impart. Now, people feel that their view is important simply by virtue of them having one, and any direction that they weren't part of forming is invalid. Heck of a way to run a war.

 

[btrudy]

I would honestly like to know as well. It would help establish credibility and also give some perspective to some of your other points and positions with this matter.

I have in the past seen people on this forum threatening to contact people's CO's when they disagreed with opinions stated, so yeah, I think I'll pass on divulging too much info. Simply put, ya'll can't be trusted.

But then, wouldn't he/she/they be used to yelling? After all, the Band Conductor has to be heard over the noise of the guns.

Surely you can distinguish between yelling at someone versus yelling to be heard.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I have in the past seen people on this forum threatening to contact people's CO's when they disagreed with opinions stated

What? I hope that was reported to forum staff.

, so yeah, I think I'll pass on divulging too much info. Simply put, ya'll can't be trusted.

Maybe at least your trade/branch might help?

For the record, I’m not too worried about anyone contacting my CO. If someone was to say they were telling my wife…well, now we are talking about someone who has absolute power over me. Checkmate.

 

[btrudy]

Some might argue that is even more relevant today. Back in the day, there was generally much more deference to authority and respect for those with skills and knowledge to impart. Now, people feel that their view is important simply by virtue of them having one, and any direction that they weren't part of forming is invalid. Heck of a way to run a war.

I really don't get why there's such resistance to the notion of changing the way the military does things in light of changing societal norms. The the way you've been doing things forever isn't working as well because of a mis-match between how the people you're recruiting expect to be treated, the only real option is to change the way you're doing things. Because you're not going to change how the people you're recruiting expect to be treated: we don't have the option of recruiting from other places or using a time machine to recruit from eras where people would have responded better to it.

The military can't change society. We need to work with the Canadian populace that we've got. And if we continue to refuse to adapt to what society expects from employers, all we'll do is continue to exacerbate our ongoing recruitment and retention crisis.

 

[mariomike]

Back in the day, there was generally much more deference to authority and respect for those with skills and knowledge to impart.

Back in the day, I think the police and military tended to hire younger applicants. I joined the PRes when I was 16.

Perhaps youngsters were more "moldable" to military / police culture?

More likely to have - relatively - simple background checks than applicants with more "life experience".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There are some things that must remain the same. Authority over subordinates. Obedience to orders, rules, policy.

The people joining the military need to understand they need to change more than anything to join; and that they can ultimately be ordered to lay down their lives for the Service.

That is the line in the sand that can’t change. Ever.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

On a different note; Tuesday next week is go day. I am hoping by Thursday of next week this isn’t a topic of import anymore.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And surely, BTrudy, you can distinguish between a statement of fact and a joke.

And BTW, unless ther are only two or three of you in the CAF, admitting that you are, say an infanteer with three or four year experience, or whatever else is unlikely to identify you in any way.

Also, BTW, in my 25 years in, I have raised my voice only once at someone on the bridge of a ship, and that was to get an OOW to act NOW as he was about to run us aground. So, you are preaching to the choir here.

Also, no matter how "nicely" the current generation would like to be treated, they are entering a profession where people on the other side will shoot at them with the aim of killing or maiming them. They have to be prepared for things not nice and to have their feelings seriously agressed.

Unless things have changed from my days, the "yelling" in basic is never made personnal - that is it does not attack the person in his/her/their being, but is directed at stressing through hurrying up or attacking the actual deportment that was incorrect with a view to correct it. For instance, we would not call a recruit an "armless baboon", but might say to a recruit "I've seen armless baboons who could tie a better square knot". Look at the statements carefully and you will note the important nuance.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Also, go work at an oil rig or a remote construction camp, chances are if your slow or doing something stupid you will get yelled at and dumped upon. Jobs with high risks, isolation and living closely together, will often bring out that sort of behaviour.

 

[btrudy]

Unless things have changed from my days, the "yelling" in basic is never made personnal - that is it does not attack the person in his/her/their being, but is directed at stressing through hurrying up or attacking the actual deportment that was incorrect with a view to correct it. For instance, we would not call a recruit an "armless baboon", but might say to a recruit "I've seen armless baboons who could tie a better square knot". Look at the statements carefully and you will note the important nuance.

That is absolutely a distinction without a difference. Adding weasel words to your insults doesn't in any way negate the impact it has on those being insulted.

 

[mariomike]

Also, go work at an oil rig or a remote construction camp, chances are if your slow or doing something stupid you will get yelled at and dumped upon.

Typical 9-1-1 shift.

 

[Remius]

I have in the past seen people on this forum threatening to contact people's CO's when they disagreed with opinions stated, so yeah, I think I'll pass on divulging too much info. Simply put, ya'll can't be trusted.


Surely you can distinguish between yelling at someone versus yelling to be heard.

I’ve never seen nor heard of that happening here.

Your trade is hardly anything anyone can identify you with. It’s perspective. When I asked if you’veever taught basic or junior leadership it was to see if you’ve been in both sides of the fence and clearly you haven’t so your generalized comments seem to be coming from personal experience and not from a wider range. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder and think that good feelings and smiles will fix everything. It won’t.

Surely you can distinguish between yelling to motivate and yelling to insult. Some people can’t and that is why their feelings get hurt.

 

[Weinie]

That is absolutely a distinction without a difference. Adding weasel words to your insults doesn't in any way negate the impact it has on those being insulted.

Who's now adding weasel words?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

@btrudy I haven't the time nor the inclination to start a witch hunt about a differing opinion. I was merely trying to ascertain the context from which you speak your lived truth. If that is a Bridge Too Far for you, then I highly suggest you refrain from adding further to the conversation.

I did BMQ at CFLRS in 2006. I was yelled at for performance deficiencies and none of it was in a demeaning or personal nature. Same thing for SQ in Meaford in 2007. Same thing again for Sig Op QL3/5 in 2007/10 respectively. Hell even PLQ in 2017 was more self induced hardship than anything else. Even as an instructor/support staff at CFSCE from 2020-22 it was made clear that any personal insults or attacks on students would be dealt with personally by the SCWO.

This is my lived experience and it hasn't caused me any lasting damage. On the contrary, I am positive it steeled my demeanor when things actually got chaotic overseas.

If you have anything relevant to add that counters my lived and the collectively shared experience of people on this forum, give'r. If you are unwilling to provide context to your experience, not even a trade, branch, or Command; well that is unfortunate, and I wish you the best. I will, however, take your opinion with a massive grain of salt; as I have no idea if you have walked anywhere near the same path as some of us here, yet are the loudest at compaining your feet hurt.

 

[Rd651]

I have in the past seen people on this forum threatening to contact people's CO's when they disagreed with opinions stated, so yeah, I think I'll pass on divulging too much info. Simply put, ya'll can't be trusted.


Surely you can distinguish between yelling at someone versus yelling to be heard.

So BTurdy, are you going to tell the forum your trade/branch as asked, or continue to deflect and troll???

 

[Kilted]

I’m betting RCA Band…

Navy League Cadet Officer?

 

[Rd651]

Navy League Cadet Officer?

I'm betting crickets from that person on the ask!!

 

[btrudy]

So BTurdy, are you going to tell the forum your trade/branch as asked, or continue to deflect and troll???

Having opinions that aren't shared by most people here is hardly the same thing as trolling. If you disagree with me, that's fine. I'm Reg Force Navy, no particular desire to share any more than that; I hardly see how it reasonably affects what I'm saying anyways.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I noticed that wigs are permitted.

Powdered wigs have a long history of presenting a positive military appearance.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Powdered wigs have a long history of presenting a positive military appearance.

Quiet man, somebody might be listening for good ideas!