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New Fighter

When you can design & push the limits of something in secret, without every single minor thing reported on in the MSM - a lot can get done!
 
CBH99 said:
When you can design & push the limits of something in secret, without every single minor thing reported on in the MSM - a lot can get done!
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puts tinfoil hat on

What if the F-35 was trotted out, warts and all, to have the public focused on that while NGAD and other programs trudged along in secret? :unsure:
 
U2...SR-71...F-117...Stealth Hawk...others no doubt...all operational for years and years before public knowledge. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
 
dimsum said:
puts tinfoil hat on

What if the F-35 was trotted out, warts and all, to have the public focused on that while NGAD and other programs trudged along in secret? :unsure:
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A lot of money to spend on a distraction. Shades of Patton's phantom army? More likely that the F35 hasn't worked out as they hoped and they have developed a good alternative: all without ruining sales of the F35 to foreign buyers I might add.
 
I doubt it’s a reaction to F-35 program challenges. Follow on efforts to F-22 has been in the works for some time, so even though NGAD itself may be a specific output, the Gen-6 activities are not new.
 
CBH99 said:
When you can design & push the limits of something in secret, without every single minor thing reported on in the MSM - a lot can get done!
Click to expand...
The rate of technological advancement presents real challenges, and so do shifts in geopolitics. The longer it takes to operationalize a system, the greater the risk that the operational conditions & threats for which it was designed will have changed dramatically, thus reducing effectiveness.

Digital engineering aims to address some of these challenges. But you're right, a lot can get done when you give a problem (or set of problems) to a group of smart people, provide them with sufficient resources, and get out of their way.
 
reveng said:
The rate of technological advancement presents real challenges, and so do shifts in geopolitics. The longer it takes to operationalize a system, the greater the risk that the operational conditions & threats for which it was designed will have changed dramatically, thus reducing effectiveness.

Digital engineering aims to address some of these challenges. But you're right, a lot can get done when you give a problem (or set of problems) to a group of smart people, provide them with sufficient resources, and get out of their way.
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U-2. A-12/YF-12/SR-71:

The OXCART Family - A-12, YF-12, SR-71, and M21 Blackbirds

The A-12’s unique design and characteristics became the foundation for three other versions of supersonic aircraft that Lockheed built for CIA and...
www.thesr71blackbird.com

Mark
Ottawa
 
Was it another Skunk works production or does anyone really know?
 
Good2Golf said:
I doubt it’s a reaction to F-35 program challenges. Follow on efforts to F-22 has been in the works for some time, so even though NGAD itself may be a specific output, the Gen-6 activities are not new.
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You're spoiling our tin foil hat moment. ;)
 
YZT580 said:
Was it another Skunk works production or does anyone really know?
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Given it was designed in secret, and designed with the efficiency of 'give a problem to a smart group of people and get out of their way' - I imagine Skunk Works or Phantom Works, or whatever NG's version is, was well involved. I imagine it won't be publicly disclosed for a number of years, and we will find out in a documentary 10+ years from now. 0.02
 
YZT580 said:
A lot of money to spend on a distraction. Shades of Patton's phantom army? More likely that the F35 hasn't worked out as they hoped and they have developed a good alternative: all without ruining sales of the F35 to foreign buyers I might add.
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Kind of grabbed my attention

Some 625 F35s are currently in service. 3 Variants - all in continuous improvement mode. Which industry thinks is a good thing. And Project Managers and Accountants detest. There is no end point.

F4 Phantom (19 Variants)


AircraftNumber
F-4A45
F-4B649
RF-4B46
F-4C583
RF-4C503
F-4D825
F-4E1370
F-4E 2020 (Turkey)54*
F-4EJ (Japan)140
RF-4E149
RF-4EJ (Japan)15*
F-4F175
F-4G Wild Weasel134*
F-4J522
F-4J (UK)15*
F-4K (UK)50
F-4M (UK)116
F-4N228*
F-4S302*

F16 Fighting Falcon


I don't know how you want to describe and count the number of blocks, mods and variants there.... but there seems to be a lot to me. Which ones were failures and which ones successes?

Sorry for the digression.

Cheers.
 
The Viper blocks are incremental upgrades as time went. Block 50/52 is known to be the most capable but the heaviest in US service. After Block 25, the last digit represents the engine (0=GE with a big air intake, or « big mouth » and 2=PW). The first digit represents the actual avionics upgrade block. Block 50/52 were known as CJ and those that were upgraded are now called CM. Blocks 60s/70s are export variants. The other blocks are one ofs or concepts.

As for the black fighter project, this is hardly a new thing. Many aircraft (some that saw operational actions, some remained developmental platforms) were developed that way. Generally speaking, non-export platforms are developed under a heavier veil of secrecy than export platforms.
 
Three weeks and its still in Norway ? I bet the wing commander may be the next to go !!
 
Strategic asset in a foreign land not far from a potential enemy? You bet his bosses arent happy. Load a C17 with mechanics and send them to Norway might have been a good first step. At that point sending spare engines would be step 2 if the original engines could not be repaired ?
 
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