New Governor General Service Medal?

[vonGarvin]

I abstain

 

[Franko]

Moved it here, seeing as it was originally started in 07 and more than likely turfed shortly thereafter.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[SeanNewman]

Pic,

Now at least I understand where you were coming from.  Your post above explains your intent, where as the one on the other threads were a bit all over the place.

What you are going for is recognition for the types of people who still contribute to the service of Canada, but not for 12 years and not overseas.

I think that's all you needed to say on the other thread, and it certainly helps me at least understand your position more.

 

[dan7108]

I petition to take all the money that would be used to create this BS medal and put it towards VAC programmes that help actual veterans who have served overseas.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I petition to take all the money that would be used to create this BS medal and put it towards VAC programmes that help actual veterans who have served overseas.

There are Veteran's that have done their duty, and have been injured, without serving overseas....

dileas

tess

 

[PIC]

Pic,

Now at least I understand where you were coming from.  Your post above explains your intent, where as the one on the other threads were a bit all over the place.

What you are going for is recognition for the types of people who still contribute to the service of Canada, but not for 12 years and not overseas.

I think that's all you needed to say on the other thread, and it certainly helps me at least understand your position more.

Thanks for that.......It had to be for the benefit of all to see, and should have been the first posting to avoid mass confusion.

 

[SeanNewman]

I petition to take all the money that would be used to create this BS medal and put it towards VAC programmes that help actual veterans who have served overseas.

I see merit in that, but I also see Pic's point in a way (as much as I don't want the medal myself).

There are all sorts of people who serve six years (2 x 3-year contracts) and contribute to the big green machine in some way but only retire with a set of Corporal epaulets to show for it. 

I know the counter-argument is "If you don't go on operation then you haven't served Canada", but that's a pretty big brush to paint that group of people with.  What if he was an awesome role player in Wainwright and helped troops who deployed learn valuable lessons?  What if he worked around the clock to build outstanding ranges that deploying troops improved their skills on?

I think there is unquestionably an overlap of some people who contribute more to the CF than a small percentage of people who deploy but don't add that much to the mission.

I think where Pic is coming from is what does that guy have to show at the end of his life to his grandkids?

I'm not saying whether or not it's medal-worthy, but I do agree that some people contribute to the CF and have nothing to show for it.

 

[Greymatters]

I think that this type of thinking is a result of the deluge of medals one sees on chests nowadays.

In the 1980's, any soldier with more than one medal was 'experienced'.  Usually the only medals a soldier had was the Cyprus and/or the 12 years medal.

In the 1990's, it was normal to see three, and six was unusual.

Nowadays, it seems six medals or more is the par, and those with nothing feel like their service isnt recognized unless they have at least one medal.

Im sorry, but a small ego problem doesnt justify this kind of medal.  Medals are supposed to recognize exceptional loyalty and dedication, and to me one year of service is not an exceptional example of loyalty or dedication.  We have Release PERs for that level of dedication.

I could be convinced of making an exception for persons who were forced to retire or be released due to injuries, but only on a case by case basis... 


Edited for text errors... 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

give them at least one medal to wear to give them the dignity and honour they deserve for volunteering to serve

..and all these years I thought I had my dignity and honour,........now I'm just shattered. :bla-bla:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Now this one, Induct Dan Fogelberg Into The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame might have legs.

Sorry, its late, and I have 6 hours left in my shift...... :-[

 

[armyvern]

Ahhhh, I see that this thread has once again come full-circle with "it's just like a CD" ... post from a few weeks ago ...

No, we wouldn't have two medals (but then, this proposal is about "recognizing volunteer service") which my proposal would do!! But, for those not satisfied with that ... I further propose that they'll still get recognized at 12 years of volunteer, honourable service just like they do now  --- so they've lost nothing.

We'll just award the 1st bar at 12 years of service, 2nd at 22 ...

Lots of bars in the system ... and rosettes too for the ribbons.

I mean heck --- if the point is to recognize someone for voluntary and honourable service (just at an earlier date than it is now) ... it seems to me that bumping up the CD to the 1 year mark and awarding the 1st bar at 12 ... would just about cover it.

It keeps circling around to the same thing ... this new "proposal" is something which we already recognize for those who have served ... we just currently do it at a later time period.

If, some would be so insistant of having a "new" award for same thing, but at the one year mark. Then hand out the damn one we already get at 12 on that one year mark instead. Then give out the first bar at 12. Save the taxpayers shitloads of money (because the medals and bars and rosettes are already IN the system) and because it, in fact, recognizes ALL the criteria this new proposal well. EVERYONE in the CF is ALREADY a volunteer; we don't conscript.

Other than that, FRP???!!! PIC I hope you aren't speaking of the FRPers who took those nice cashouts to retire early on a voluntary basis --- some of whom came back to working in the CF within a couple of years after having voluntarily left it ... And for those whose contracts "just weren't" renewed --- they all would have had their 3 years of service with an initial BE. Seems bumping up the CD to one year should solve that little matter too.

But, me somehow suspects, that would not solve the matter either for the vast majority of "Yes - for this medal pers" as there'd be "no new bling" to wear, but just "earlier bling".


And, I give this thread another 6 weeks before we circle around the drain to the exact same thing once again.

Usually that warrants a "lock" or a move to "radio chatter" until some "new info" comes along.

A former general adding his name to an online petition does not "new" info make; it's simply chatter. It's no more important weight-wise than all of those numbers of former generals who did NOT add their names to the online position.

 

[PIC]

Now this one, Induct Dan Fogelberg Into The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame might have legs.

Sorry, its late, and I have 6 hours left in my shift...... :-[

You should have posted that to a new topic....I think you better get some sleep, and lots of it.
The petition pertains to the GGVSM, that is found here:<a href="http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/volunteer-service-medal-for-our-veterans.html">Online petition - Petition for a Volunteer Service Medal for our Veterans (GGVSM)</a>
But I, and many others know just what you are up to.

And it stinks  :nod:  :fifty:

 

[FDO]

Why issue a medal to someone who can't wear it. If you didn't do 12 to get the CD then exactly when do you plan to display this award and how? If you want recognition then apply for the Veteran's Plates for your car. I think (but don't quote me) quite a few of the provinces have this now. You apply through the local Legion. Having those plates on my car gives me more recognition than another medal in my sock drawer would! And if your still serving and haven't gotten a medal yet just wait it will come. We have so many now and for almost everything that no one should be without one for very long. Or just do 12 and get the CD then walk.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

This is like a strong fart in a church. It just won't go away.


I'm sorry, but if you didn't deploy or do 12 years, then you DO NOT DESERVE a medal. Apply for your veterans plate instead, and show your pride that way.

6 years spent counting blankets in a warehouse somewhere sure is valuable service, but does it merit a medal? NO!!!

Medals are for valour (MMV, SMV), long service (CD), meritorious coduct (MSM) or campaigns - (GCS, SWASM). Why do we need a 'got issued DEU's/drank in the JR's/went on exercise once' medal???? Does that kind of service really equal campaign service or the service req'd for a CD?

If you think it does give your head a shake.

 

[SeanNewman]

Why issue a medal to someone who can't wear it?

There are plenty of times the CF does that, (Sacrifice Medal for being killed, valour decorations for actions conducted before dying, etc).

No I'm not comparing a VC with this medal; just saying that all sorts of medals get issued to people who can't wear them.

Plus, they could wear them on Remembrance Day as well as on their Legion uniforms if they go there.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Let us remember all of our Veterans and give them at least one medal to wear to give them the dignity and honour they deserve for volunteering to serve and the GGVSM would be a truly outstanding Canadian Medal to do this.

This is the biggest thing I take issue with. Is not the knowledge that you honourably served not dignifying/honourable enough? Is a little bit of tin on your chest going to make you feel better about VR'ing after 3 years and not doing a tour?

Like I've said in the other cheap bling thread, this medal is nothing more than ego padding for those who couldn't/wouldn't do the time or the tours to earn gongs. And now, with the increase in awareness of veterans, the rising tide of 'support our troops', they think they need something to help them climb on the bandwagon, and to feel good about themselves at Rememberance Day when they see everyone else who did do something with their military careers.

 

[Loachman]

But I, and many others know just what you are up to.

Well, when we see something goofy, we say so - one way or another.

 

[vonGarvin]

Oh, I can see it now
"How come he has a medal, and I don't?"
"He did 12 years honourable service."
"No fair, I want one!"
"How long did you serve?"
"Six years."
"OK, here's your medal."
"But, what about me?"
"OK, how long did *you* serve?"
"Three years."
"OK, here's your medal."
"But..."
"Hold on, let me guess, you did 1.5 years?"
:nod:
"OK, here you go."
And on it goes.....


Dude, I have CD, with clasp.  It took me 22 years to earn that COMBINED with honourable service.  You want bling?  Go join these guys.

 

[observor 69]

I am retired Air Force, have a CD with bar and the done my time in NATO medal, and I also held onto my old wedge.

I am not a member of the Legion but I attend every Remembrance day ceremony in honour of those who served and sacrificed.

Many vets wear their medals and old service head dress as they stand among the crowd. For some reason I have yet to do the same.

I am interested in the thinking on whether I should or should not wear the medals and head dress.

Also at my age the thought occurs of what do people do with medals after they pass on and family don't want them?

 

[Greymatters]

... this medal is nothing more than ego padding for those who couldn't/wouldn't do the time or the tours to earn gongs. And now, with the increase in awareness of veterans, the rising tide of 'support our troops', they think they need something to help them climb on the bandwagon, and to feel good about themselves at Rememberance Day when they see everyone else who did do something with their military careers.

I think that pretty much sums it up.  Although, there will always be those who did do something worthy and didnt get any medal-related recognition for it, the line has to be drawn somewhere.  The alternative is going to a ribbon system like the US has...