New Minister of Veterans Affairs: Mandate Letter, etc.
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No shortage of blame to go around, indeed.Tcm621 said:
Teager
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Tcm621 said:
I believe it was a rush job. It was left as a "living" document so changes could be made more so because it was pushed through very quickly. There were articles that all parties came up with the NVC during a plane flight. There's a lot that points to a rush job.
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Just VAC and Climate Change alone is now $800M a year. I wonder who's going to not get their promises filled when they run out of cash.... :facepalm:
daftandbarmy
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PuckChaser said:
<cough> Not Quebec <cough> ;D
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Hello All,
Regarding the reinstituting of lifelong pensions for veterans, which in itself is great news but.. how can the government give back pensions to veterans who received (and in most cases used up or invested) a Disability Award?
A few thoughts from our peanut gallery;
1. Knowing that many of the New Veteran Charter allowances only apply to Post-Pension vets and are not available to those with a pension. It seems logical to believe that, if they instituted pensions once again, that we would loose Income Replacements and Permanent Impairment allowances just to name a few. The VIP and the Family Caregiver Attendance Allowance would probably still remain since these are not related to income of the pensioner.
2. Here is what the Canadian Pension Act para 37 (4) says about the subject: - http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-6/page-10.html#docCont
" Any pensioner who has accepted a final payment under any provisions previously contained in this Act but now repealed may, if it is found on examination that his or her pensionable disability has persisted or increased, be restored to pension in respect thereof as of the date on which the amount of the final payment received by the pensioner is or was equal to the sum of the instalments of pension that the pensioner would have received if, instead of accepting a final payment, he or she had continued to receive pension at the rate in force immediately before the final payment was made, or as of six months prior to the date of the examination, whichever is the later date."
In sum, it appears that if the Government wished to return veterans from a Disability Award (DA) to a Pension, there is policy in place for such a thing. if the amount of the DA has been paid in full, then the difference between the value of the entire pension and the DA could be spread evenly into a new monthly pension. Provided that the disability has persisted and or increased.
Basically, if a 40 year old single veteran, 50% disabled under VAC, would be receiving approx $1500 per month under the old system. Under the new system, $153K in one lump sum is what he/she would receive. Let say he/she lives until he/she is 80 years old which is 40 years of pensions, the total pension sum paid monthly under the old system would be worth $720K. Take the $720K minus the DA of $153K and he/she is left with $567K in this potential (pot of money for a pension)
So, we take the "pot of money for a pension" and we divide it by 40 years and per month. The new "potential" pension payment would be $1181.25. No need to repay back the DA since its factored in.
Again, our thoughts on how VA might proceed with this policy change. It can be done and there is law in effect that allows them to do so now. The only issue is that for some, the allowances/benefits currently in place under the New Veterans Charter may be worth more than the "renegotiated/potential" pension amount. It may not benefit all members.
What do you all think?
Regarding the reinstituting of lifelong pensions for veterans, which in itself is great news but.. how can the government give back pensions to veterans who received (and in most cases used up or invested) a Disability Award?
A few thoughts from our peanut gallery;
1. Knowing that many of the New Veteran Charter allowances only apply to Post-Pension vets and are not available to those with a pension. It seems logical to believe that, if they instituted pensions once again, that we would loose Income Replacements and Permanent Impairment allowances just to name a few. The VIP and the Family Caregiver Attendance Allowance would probably still remain since these are not related to income of the pensioner.
2. Here is what the Canadian Pension Act para 37 (4) says about the subject: - http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-6/page-10.html#docCont
" Any pensioner who has accepted a final payment under any provisions previously contained in this Act but now repealed may, if it is found on examination that his or her pensionable disability has persisted or increased, be restored to pension in respect thereof as of the date on which the amount of the final payment received by the pensioner is or was equal to the sum of the instalments of pension that the pensioner would have received if, instead of accepting a final payment, he or she had continued to receive pension at the rate in force immediately before the final payment was made, or as of six months prior to the date of the examination, whichever is the later date."
In sum, it appears that if the Government wished to return veterans from a Disability Award (DA) to a Pension, there is policy in place for such a thing. if the amount of the DA has been paid in full, then the difference between the value of the entire pension and the DA could be spread evenly into a new monthly pension. Provided that the disability has persisted and or increased.
Basically, if a 40 year old single veteran, 50% disabled under VAC, would be receiving approx $1500 per month under the old system. Under the new system, $153K in one lump sum is what he/she would receive. Let say he/she lives until he/she is 80 years old which is 40 years of pensions, the total pension sum paid monthly under the old system would be worth $720K. Take the $720K minus the DA of $153K and he/she is left with $567K in this potential (pot of money for a pension)
So, we take the "pot of money for a pension" and we divide it by 40 years and per month. The new "potential" pension payment would be $1181.25. No need to repay back the DA since its factored in.
Again, our thoughts on how VA might proceed with this policy change. It can be done and there is law in effect that allows them to do so now. The only issue is that for some, the allowances/benefits currently in place under the New Veterans Charter may be worth more than the "renegotiated/potential" pension amount. It may not benefit all members.
What do you all think?
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Porch-Light.org said:
Very few cases though really as many of the "newly" injured (for lack of better classification) are quite young and while their DA payments may have been higher % wise, those payouts wouldn't even come close to the life-time amount given their life expectancy.
Of course this is all generalization of course so how it will apply in real life, especially once politics gets involved, will be different. You seem correct though; the math seems relatively straight forward and was pretty much what this old budget manager was thinking to.
I have absolutely no knowledge of the old pension system; where did you get your numbers from? (% = monthly $ I mean)
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Wookilar said:
We found the Disability Pension numbers halfway down...on here - http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/services/rates#disaward
Agreed with your previous points. Will just have to wait and see if and when this all comes out..But its always fun to crunch the numbers right
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He's been doing a lot of talking and promising, but I've seen no sign of the changes he's talked about. :dunno:
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I think the coming budget (maybe 21 or 22 March?) will show how much of a priority vets' issues are, compared to other priorities.Teager said:
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milnews.ca said:
Definitely a good benchmark. A lot of the changes can't be made without budgetting the cost. However, giving veterans the benefit of the doubt is an easy change, and has not been implemented yet.
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Sadly, because even that will (likely) cost money, that may also be why it hasn't been done yet.PuckChaser said:
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milnews.ca said:
They've got at least $200M apparently, just in benefits and programs:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/31/more-than-200m-unspent-in-veterans-budget-last-year.html
Further evidence of an insurance company mentality, deny, deny, deny, and finally relent at the last possible moment.
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