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New Ontario Government 2018

brihard

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There's a major point people are missing about Ford's response. Not only did he do a great job, but he was responsible for sheparding approx 40% of Canada's population through this. 35 million total pop/ 15 million from Ontario. That, right there is a major feat he can be proud of. He sailed through where provinces, with almost negligible populations in comparison, floundered and failed about like fish in a forest. He struck a pretty good balance between gut and science. Let's also not forget that a lot of the stuff the Premieres mandated were following what the Fed was ordering them to do.Want to blame someone? Blame Tam and Hadju, whose marching orders come from Trudeau. Probably the last three people in the world anyone should take pandemic advice from. Ford was one of the very few that stood in front of the cameras and said "The buck stops with me. If you want to blame someone, blame me." Seek out and accept responsibility.šŸ˜‰
Sorry, Iā€™m not tracking the connection to the near total halt to enforcement of skilled trade licensing since 2018.
 

Fishbone Jones

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I was intimately involved with this. Prior, the responsibility for this was part of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Licenses and training were investigated by the Min of Labour OHS Inspectors during routine inspections or complaints. Wynne wanted to expand the PS so they developed a plan to hire hundreds of people whose job it was to walk in and check the license and training records and leave. They looked at nothing else. Great, high paying, full benefit jobs with minimum energy expenditure while removing an investigation tool from the Labour Inspectors. The whole thing was a gift to the Wynne/ Horvath alliance, union base. Ontario taxpayers were already paying for this service, done by OHS Inspectors. It typically took less than 10 minutes to check that aspect during an inspection. MOL did not ask to lose this tool. It was taken from us to hire a more OPSEU employees. Simply return the responsibility to the MOL. Hundreds of vehicles, every 4-5 years, real estate, resources, not to mention the approx $70,000/yr wage, per inspector. It is as simple as saying to MOL, "You guys got this back." Those five words could save Ontario taxpayers millions.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Sorry, Iā€™m not tracking the connection to the near total halt to enforcement of skilled trade licensing since 2018.
On this page alone, there are posts about both the job Ford is doing during the pandemic and a separate subject of Colleges and Trades(#357). I simply answered both points.
 

brihard

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On this page alone, there are posts about both the job Ford is doing during the pandemic and a separate subject of Colleges and Trades(#357). I simply answered both points.

Gotcha. I replied before your second post.

I was intimately involved with this. Prior, the responsibility for this was part of the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Licenses and training were investigated by the Min of Labour OHS Inspectors during routine inspections or complaints. Wynne wanted to expand the PS so they developed a plan to hire hundreds of people whose job it was to walk in and check the license and training records and leave. They looked at nothing else. Great, high paying, full benefit jobs with minimum energy expenditure while removing an investigation tool from the Labour Inspectors. The whole thing was a gift to the Wynne/ Horvath alliance, union base. Ontario taxpayers were already paying for this service, done by OHS Inspectors. It typically took less than 10 minutes to check that aspect during an inspection. MOL did not ask to lose this tool. It was taken from us to hire a more OPSEU employees. Simply return the responsibility to the MOL. Hundreds of vehicles, every 4-5 years, real estate, resources, not to mention the approx $70,000/yr wage, per inspector. It is as simple as saying to MOL, "You guys got this back." Those five words could save Ontario taxpayers millions.

Thanks for this. That's a pretty reasonable explanation for part of it. Was that power ever returned to the MoL and funding reallocated to continue with inspections? Given that they were finding more than 4000 people working unticketed in trades a year, that would suggest a serious enforcement gap if Ford slashed what was put in place without at the same time shifting that responsibility back to someone and properly resourcing it. Am I missing something here or was nothing put back in place to achieve the same objective?
 

Fishbone Jones

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I'm retired, so I haven't been involved for awhile. You, as well as anyone, knows about chronic offenders. You also have a chronic problem of people working under the table. 4,000/yr in a province with our population is not that much IMHO. When you look at the amount of nail shops around, I'll bet you could almost get that amount on those alone. The job was previously done by MOL so it should only cost a couple of days refresher training, for MOL to resume the job. It was a small, part of our overall job. A tiny box check on items to inspect. The Wynne government turned it into a specialty requiring specialists to do it. When it was all coming down a bunch of us questioned the wisdom. Our union steward warned us all to be quiet and not fight it. Of course management was all behind it at the time also.
 

brihard

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I'm retired, so I haven't been involved for awhile. You, as well as anyone, knows about chronic offenders. You also have a chronic problem of people working under the table. 4,000/yr in a province with our population is not that much IMHO. When you look at the amount of nail shops around, I'll bet you could almost get that amount on those alone. The job was previously done by MOL so it should only cost a couple of days refresher training, for MOL to resume the job. It was a small, part of our overall job. A tiny box check on items to inspect. The Wynne government turned it into a specialty requiring specialists to do it. When it was all coming down a bunch of us questioned the wisdom. Our union steward warned us all to be quiet and not fight it. Of course management was all behind it at the time also.
Right, makes sense.

I could really give a rat's ass about a nail salon... Lot more concerned about stuff like the guy working on my brakes or my furnace. I would have hoped this would have been prioritized towards 'high consequence' breaches where there's a real public risk to unlicensed work?
 

OldSolduer

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Right, makes sense.

I could really give a rat's ass about a nail salon... Lot more concerned about stuff like the guy working on my brakes or my furnace. I would have hoped this would have been prioritized towards 'high consequence' breaches where there's a real public risk to unlicensed work?
But its hard to catch those mechanics and furnace guys. Nail salons are much easier. Just my opinion and that`s not worth a hill of beans ;)
 

Fishbone Jones

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Right, makes sense.

I could really give a rat's ass about a nail salon... Lot more concerned about stuff like the guy working on my brakes or my furnace. I would have hoped this would have been prioritized towards 'high consequence' breaches where there's a real public risk to unlicensed work?
Everyone is equal under the law, right?šŸ˜‰šŸ˜†
 

Fishbone Jones

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But its hard to catch those mechanics and furnace guys. Nail salons are much easier. Just my opinion and that`s not worth a hill of beans ;)
Backyard mechanics for sure. Ones working in a shop, not so much. I checked one place, where the supervising mechanic had his shingle in about 8 different garages. Supervisor is supposed to be on site to check the work of the non licenced. Hard to be in 8 places at once, checking on kids who are just parts changers. Gotta step away and get some shit done. Cheers.
 

Brad Sallows

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Part of what protects consumers is reputation. A sterling reputation is needed in highly-competitive endeavours. A licensing scandal would be death to reputation. (If you want a rough measure for highly-competitive, pick up a hardcopy yellow pages directory if you can find one and see who is buying double- and full-page ads, or space on the front/back covers and spine.)

A bit similar to the old emissions inspections scheme in BC. Purpose-built installations, staffed by well-compensated people doing only one (not particularly complex or demanding) thing all day long. Based on fee, hourly rate was more than what I paid at shops with highly-qualified and versatile automotive mechanics. I suspect "private enterprise" could have filled the gap, maybe with some initial loans/subsidies to businesses willing to devote or add a test bay.
 

lenaitch

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Successive Ontario governments love writing regulations; they're not big on enforcing them.
 
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