No canadian support for military? opinion please, writing paper

[scottyg_20]

Im currently working on a paper to do with the over stretching of our military.

basicly im seeing that the funds arent there because a) the government isnt all there, morons at times

b) the canadian citizens dont want it.
in 1998 (i know kinda old) they did a survey

Canada were asked what the leaders of Canada should be receiving the greatest amount of attention it was Unemployment/Jobs: 27% Health Care/Medicare: 40% Defense/Military: 1%

would that not partially explain why the military doenst get more funding. canadian citizens are too focused on their own well being , we already have the best healthcare in the world,

i just read the thread about military role, and during my essay i was supporting a military with primary role of peacekeeping.

Now ive always thought we needed a bigger military, we have a huge country and should defend it, but thats not going to happen anytime soon because no one thinks canada is threatened, ya ok.

so im argueing that our reputation as peacekeepers is at risk because we simply cant effectively act on all the commitments the government is making? is this not true. i read that 1/3 of the armies deployable force is currently overseas.

i personally think if we could get canadian citizens to realize that to raise the military budget isnt to simply build bigger guns, although it would allow us to bring our fighting force up to date, but its to be able to help out more overseas, humanitarion mission, keep the peace for the world.

am i going anywhere right with this?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Canadians don‘t feel that we as a country are in dangerer or are in need of a large military. People automatically connect the military with defending out homeland against attack. (Wehave the states, who would dare attack). They they don‘t realise that defending our own border is but a small requirement for our military. A line of trenches from BC to quebec won‘t stop terrorists from getting in or WMD from landing on ottawa.

 

[chrisf]

Well obviously... you left a huge gap... the country doesn‘t end in Quebec...

 

[GhostRecce]

hahahahahahahahah

 

[Recce41]

Everyone thinks, “its we don‘t need one”. The problem is the country does not understand us. Back as soon as the 60s. Militia units, would parade through the cities, have open house, and **** well showed what we did. The soldiers in the militia are the real, sells men. I go **** to units and see, the mess full, yng soldiers drunk. What does that so the people? All that shows is we are drunks and foul mouthed a55holes.
When I was in Winnipeg, a lot of people said this, "I don‘t know what you did”. They think we go out in the woods and shoot up the world.

Canada is a Militia country, since 1867, our Army has been a professional Militia one. Back when militia soldiers trained the same as the Regs. Now, were lucky to get a NCO out for a course.
Until we change the view of the military, the military will be sore in the goverment‘s pocket book.

 

[Jarnhamar]

But quebec is going to be the forward edge of battle when our forces push out to liberate the maritimes.

 

[chrisf]

Nonsense. Call the engineers. We‘ll sand bag Cape Breton and blow up the causeway. It‘ll be like the rock of Gibraltor, only with more parties.

And I‘d like to note that Newfoundland and Labrador is not a maritime province, it‘s actually an atlantic province (Maritime provinces are Quebec, PEI, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick. Atlantic Provinces are the maritime provinces + Newfoundland).

Either that or you knew the afforementioned bit of information, and you already accept the fact that trying to invade Newfoundland would be like taking a belt sander to your genitals.

 

[gate_guard]

I agree wholeheartedly with Recce41‘s sentiments. There are many issues/concerns that need attention in todays CF from strategic lift, future of the armoured corp, artillery guns, and the list continues. One major concern is the state of the militia today. It is a given that the reg force is overstretched and in need of more dollars for training and equipment. But in terms of our public exposure more often than not this role falls to the militia. Unless you live in one of garrison cities, as a civilian you‘ve probably seen very little of anyone in uniform. To promote the CF to the forefront of the public‘s concerns, we need to pay more attention to the militia. This begins with more opportunities for getting out in our communities beyond the yearly Rememberance Day parade and the odd recruiting drive. But more than that, real standards need to established to bring the militia to an acceptable level of training at all times. All I hear from my current CO is how fast my regiment is growing. Well that‘s great but Canada‘s military has never been about quantity as much as quality. As well, we in the militia need to get rid of the junior ranks mentality where we only show up to get paid and get drunk and take our job (albeit part time) a lot more seriously. To rehash IMO, if we are to "sell" the military to the public we need to provide more opportunities for the public to see their military and bring militia standards to a higher level of sustained training.

 

[mattoigta]

"Canada were asked what the leaders of Canada should be receiving the greatest amount of attention it was Unemployment/Jobs: 27% Health Care/Medicare: 40% Defense/Military: 1%"

That actually doesnt explain anything, obviously our military shouldn‘t be given top priority, over issues like Health Care or unemployment.
As Franklin D Roosevelt once said "The core of our defence is the faith we have in
the institutions we defend."

 

[gosho4]

I have a question.

If Militia Standards are improved couldent we rotate them on Missions like Bosnia and Afganistan.Wouldent it imrprove the Situation somehwat? And what if the DND created a Foreighn Legion or a force Tied to the UN as a lot of people would be for Increasing the Canadian Role in Peacekeeping etc thus Freeing our Regular forces from commitment in the UN hense freeing their Resources for better Equipment. Forces from the Foreign Unit have their own Budget Separate from CFs... And Also we Canada are one of the only Nations in the world with a larger Regular Force over our Reserves.The book was talking about again mid 90s but its still true.

 

[xFusilier]

I don‘t beleive that the Canadian public as a whole does not support the military. On the whole I beleive that Canadians d support the military. The problem is that they support the concept of a strong social safety net more that the concept of a strong military. This has been borne out by numerous surveys.

When a single issue survey with reference to funding is conducted the vast majority of respondants state that military funding should be increased. It is when asked to rank the miliitary as a funding priorty that the respondants are place the military below most aspects of federal spending.

I also believe that the military certainly shot itself in the foot with the "superbase" concept, I personally beleive that the cost savings were minimal and it only served to reduce the footprint of the military in the community. Especially in 1 Bde where prior to concentrating in Edmonton, there was an Army presence right across Western Canada.

 

[Mulan]

RE: Comunity footprint
I‘ve noticed that when we send forces overseas, the eyes and hearts of a whole family go too. This concern often spreads out into the community, especially in small towns, and Canada has a lot of small towns.
Interesting note - To paraphrase Rick Mercier from his recent X-mas TV special, there are a lot of NFLD‘ers in the forces because the CF is one of the largest employment options available.
If the CF so directly impact on their community, I imagine they would be very interested in Govt financing of DND. More money = more jobs. This must also be true for other parts of Canada as well.
Any thoughts on this?

 

[chrisf]

Not really. The bulk of Newfoundlanders employed by the CF are not employed inside the province.

 

[jeff001]

Saying that the military requires more money will always be said.Every time something to do with a budget is brought up, the military is usually discussed.Perhaps the powers that be should start thinking more along the lines of applying the funding into the fighting units, and, the units that support them.Instead of pumping up that huge machine in Ottawa. There are more pers in Ottawa than there are fighting troops
combined.Understanding that a military has to be administrated,still the number of pers in Ottawa reflects only CF pers not including the civilian employees. To say that a third of the land forces are deployed, out of the 50K approx in the CF, how much does that really represent, and those are fighting troops, and direct support troops deployed as part of that third. Taking from the elements, Army Navy and Air, comparing the amount of fighting pers to the administrative pers, this does not make for a large offensive force.My main point is that we need more tooth not tail,and all the nice warm fuzzy things that the CF spends its budget on should be reduced.Out of the billions we get in budget dollars how much translates into bullets and how much translates into pens.

 

[xFusilier]

Okay I‘ll bite,

all the nice warm fuzzy things that the CF spends its budget on should be reduced

Such as?

 

[dbrock]

Sounds to me like a granola eater setting the room up for a fight. The canadian military has great equipment but the troops need a raise in pay. It is all and good to have the toys, but if you have to put your family on welfare to make a living what is it worth staying in the service of your country. Just an opinion from a Canadian Forces veteran living south of the border and has seen what has happened to the American Military. great toys but no decent pay or decent personal kit for the troopers.

:mg:

 

[logau]

See my paper at http://www.donlowconcrete.com/USA

There are lots of references to links that will help you

Also - look at Queens University‘s recent paper called "Canada Without Armed Forces" www.queensu.ca/sps/DMSP/claxton4.html

That should get you going -

Email me for any puzzles - I have heard a lot of them.

Quick summary - follow the money = the priority of Canadians. I hate to see the grieving families when one of our soldiers gets hurt or worse. But the current government and its party have done the dirty work.

Originally posted by CDNguy:
[QB] Im currently working on a paper to do with the over stretching of our military.

 

[dbrock]

Great paper,

i found it to be an interesting read. Keep up the good work. :fifty:

 

[RCD]

First the role of the forces must be define.
Once that it is established,then let‘s acquired the equipment even if not made in Canada label is not on it.

 

[xFusilier]

Sounds to me like a granola eater setting the room up for a fight.

I don‘t know if this one was directed at me so:

1. Whats wrong with granola, keeps ya regular!

2. All I was really asking is what he felt the warm-fuzzy things that the CF spends its money one, to evolve the debate a little, maybe discuss whether or not some of the things that do not bear any relation to the sharp end of the stick actually do have value. Stuff like that.