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No good will come from this

Reccesoldier said:
...
The only exception being if the commission is laboriously and painfully allowed to snake its money wasting over sensationalized and partisan way to an exoneration of Mulroney and a condemnation of Schreiber and all who called for the damn thing in the first place.
...

Actually, if the thing lumbers along, that's the primary outcome I expect.

I believe Mulroney knows there is nothing which can even remotely connect him to the $10-20 million Schreiber says he passed around to ensure Air Canada bought the Airbus aircraft way back when. But Mulroney will use that 'line' to hang Stevie Cameron, et al, including Alan Rock.

I also believe that Mulroney will say, "Yeah, Schreiber hired me to lobby for him, and I didn't do it the way he thought I should. Because of my office I refused to ever lobby the federal government - that's why I never registered as a lobbyist, I never was one. I tried to use my influence on his behalf in other areas but he isn't satisfied. That's why he's suing me. Anyway, I regret I ever agreed to help him, it was an error in my personal judgement but I never did anything wrong - except to ponder what to do for too long. In the end I decided I did enough for the money so I kept it, paid taxes on it and will defend myself against his lawsuit." He will use that 'line' to hang the CBC/Fifth Estate.


Edit: inserted "use" in "... he will use that 'line' to hang the CBC ..."
 
I am guessing that Herr Schreiber has disappointed "customers" back in Germany that probably ponied up a lot more cash to Herr Schreiber than he ever offered to Mr. Mulroney or Air Canada or the Liberals.

He sold himself to the Germans as an Agent of Influence.  What if it turns out that Airbus won the contract within the rules of the game (not necessarily fair and square, IRBs and Offsets preclude that possibility)?  Then they didn't have to pay Schreiber.  What if it turns out that Schreiber had no more access to the PM than any Lawyer buying a ticket to a Chretien Garden Party?  Would that suggest that Schreiber sold his "influence" under false pretences, voiding his contract and requiring the return of all funds advanced to him?

Schreiber has to demonstrate to his "employers" that he was working in good faith in their interests.  That seems to be a problem, judging from the German court cases.

The original deal was worth $1,500,000,000 US dollars in 1988 according to the New York Times article of the day.  It was lucrative enough that Boeing bought the DeHavilland/McDonell-Douglas/Bombardier plant at Malton to secure a better bargaining position (and promptly sold it after the contract was lost). 

So how much was Mr. Schreiber advanced for his services. How much did he spend and where? And to what effect?  How much does he owe his previous employers?

Just Askin'.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Actually, if the thing lumbers along, that's the primary outcome I expect.

I believe Mulroney knows there is nothing which can even remotely connect him to the $10-20 million Schreiber says he passed around to ensure Air Canada bought the Airbus aircraft way back when. But Mulroney will use that 'line' to hang Stevie Cameron, et al, including Alan Rock.

I also believe that Mulroney will say, "Yeah, Schreiber hired me to lobby for him, and I didn't do it the way he thought I should. Because of my office I refused to ever lobby the federal government - that's why I never registered as a lobbyist, I never was one. I tried to use my influence on his behalf in other areas but he isn't satisfied. That's why he's suing me. Anyway, I regret I ever agreed to help him, it was an error in my personal judgement but I never did anything wrong - except to ponder what to do for too long. In the end I decided I did enough for the money so I kept it, paid taxes on it and will defend myself against his lawsuit." He will use that 'line' to hang the CBC/Fifth Estate.


Edit: inserted "use" in "... he will use that 'line' to hang the CBC ..."

Doesnt that contradict some (or many) of his earlier statements on the subject?
 
I think the problem, if there is one, is not with what Fibber Muldoon said, rather it's with what he didn't say.

Back when he was suing the government of the day over the Airbus affair he said he knew Schreiber slightly - he never mentioned that he had entered into a $300,000 (cash in brown envelopes) business deal with him.

Now, arguably, since Mulroney must be assumed to have had nothing to do with the Airbus contracts, his other business with Schreiber may not have been germane. Some (mainly journalists) would beg to differ.

I think Mulroney will try to keep the two issues quite separate: Airbus ≠ Schreiber’s $300K. If he can, if there is no relationship, except the slimy Schreiber, then he ‘wins,’ in so far as anyone can ‘win’ anything in the coming fiasco.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
... in so far as anyone can ‘win’ anything in the coming fiasco.

A perfect summation of the whole sorry mess.

I'm angry that I'll be paying for this fiasco - is there NOTHING I can do about that?
 
If the PM gets his way and the scope is kept very, very narrow (1993 to 1996) then Mulroney is, most likely, officially exonerated even though his all important reputation is ruined ... yet again.

If the terms of reference are as broad as the Liberals want then I'm guessing that mud will fly at random, random with duck and it'll hit Jean Chrétien, Jean Pelletier, Jocelyn Bourgon and Stevie Cameron – and some of it will stick, too. The rumour mongers - mainly in the media and in political party offices - will have brought this on themselves.
 
This is extracted from an article in today’s Globe and Mail:

Technically, subpoenas issued by a Canadian inquiry have no force in a foreign country, although German authorities can agree to issue similar orders there. Whether that would have an effect on Mr. Schreiber once he is in Germany is another matter, however.

One legal expert, British Columbia lawyer Gary Botting, said delaying the extradition could allow Mr. Schreiber to evade prosecution – although other experts disagreed.

Mr. Botting, author of Canadian Extradition Law Practice, said that the habeas corpus provisions of the Extradition Act would allow Mr. Schreiber to apply to a judge to be set free if he is not sent to Germany within 45 days after his legal appeals are exhausted. That would cancel his extradition, he said.

That 45-day clock started ticking on Thursday, when the Ontario Court of Appeal rejected Mr. Schreiber's latest appeal, but it would be reset if his lawyers seek leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada.

There is a contradictory opinion, of course, but if Gary Botting is right then it must be impossible to do anything but let the law take its course: i.e. extradite Schreiber when his appeals are exhausted and hope that the Commissioner can get something useful out of him from his (presumed) German jail cell.



 
Well, in my opinion we already have proof that Schreiber is just doing this to stay in the country and now Dion has just proved that the Liberals want a witch hunt not an honest inquiry into the events of 13 years ago.
 
Here, as a public service, are extracts from the Executive Summary of the forthcoming Inquiry into Certain Allegations Surrounding former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney:

----------

The Inquiry was focused, mainly, on the actions Mr. Mulroney may have taken while in office and subsequent events related to those actions. The Inquiry also dealt with the settlement of Mr. Mulroney’s suit against the Government of Canada regarding Air Canada’s decision to purchase Airbus aircraft.

There is no evidence to suggest that Mr. Mulroney had any involvement in Air Canada’s decision to purchase Airbus aircraft. He did replace the Air Canada Board of Directors with Conservative Party loyalists, but this was fairly normal practice in Canada. Mr. Schreiber alleges that some of the money he paid out must have found its way into Mr. Mulroney’s hands. The Inquiry, while not doubting that there is some truth in some of Mr. Schreiber’s testimony, found that, in the main, it was a tissue of self serving lies. There is no paper trail pointing anywhere near Mr. Mulroney.

With regard to the subsequent RCMP investigations: the Inquiry finds that the investigations were triggered by a politically motivated but decidedly personal ‘suggestion’ of wrongdoing by Ms. Stevie Cameron. The government of the day, especially Messers Chrétien and Rock should have seen Ms. Cameron’s campaign for what it was; that they did not suggests either poor political instincts or an inability to resist a chance to ‘get’ Mr. Mulroney for purely partisan political purposes. In any event the RCMP found no evidence to support any of Ms. Cameron’s false allegations and the Government of Canada, rightfully, apologized and paid Mr. Mulroney’s legal and PR costs.

Although the Inquiry has some doubts about some of Mr. Mulroney’s testimony it is impossible to conclude that he entered into any agreement with Mr. Schreiber before he left office in 1993. He did, indeed, meet with Mr. Schreiber at Harrington Lake but he testified that he set aside time for farewell meetings with several people. Weighing the relative credibility of Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber we conclude that there is no evidence that Mr. Mulroney did anything other than, as he said, have a pleasant chat with Mr. Schreiber and agree to meet with him, a few weeks later (after he was no longer Prime Minister of Canada) to discuss possible business deals.

Mr. Mulroney’s political instincts were also poor. In his defence he pointed out that Mr. Schreiber was all well connected charmer and he notes that Herman Chancellor Helmut Kohl was also fooled by Mr. Schreiber – to the detriment of his reputation. Only former Albert Premier Peter Lougheed seems to have seen through Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Mulroney, inexplicably, failed to heed his warnings. Mr. Mulroney claims that Mr. Schreiber ingratiated himself by offering a ‘solution’ to a perennial Canadian political problem: Caper Breton economic development. Mr. Schreiber, in the ‘80s, represented Thyssen Industries and he was touting a plan to build military vehicles in the region. Mr. Mulroney and some of his ministers were interested and that is the origin of the relationship between the two men. Mr. Mulroney admits he found Schreiber a “charming rogue” and, despite continuing failures to produce any useful results, he enjoyed Schreiber’s company and his stories about business, businessmen and politics and politicians.

There is no doubt that Mr. Mulroney accepted cash payments totally $300,000.00 from Mr. Schreiber. Mr. Schreiber’s testimony about the purposes of these payments is troubling but, finally, too tainted to be given any great weight. Mr. Mulroney’s testimony is self serving but, finally, believable. He says that he agreed to “help” Mr. Schreiber with several business dealings. Mr. Mulroney claims that he never intended to lobby ministers or officials in the Government of Canada. It would be, he says (and the Inquiry agrees) quite inappropriate for a former Prime Minister of Canada to do so. That, he says, is why he never registered as a lobbyist. He claims that he planned to help Mr. Schreiber with other “players” in Canadian and global business and with some (not Canadian federal) government leaders. The Inquiry believes that Mr. Schreiber believed otherwise. Inexplicably, he believed that a Progressive Conservative government, headed by Kim Campbell, would be re-elected in 1993. He also believed Brian Mulroney would be his entrée into the “corridors of power” of that government. He was mistaken. What Mr. Mulroney did or did not do to “earn” Mr. Schreiber’s $300,000.00 is a matter to be settled by civil courts.

The Inquiry finds that Mr. Mulroney made significant errors in moral judgement. He explains that he sacrificed potential earnings in the millions of dollars serve Canada as a politician and that he was eager to start earning money for his family’s future as soon as he left office. The Inquiry accepts that rationale but finds that he erred, grievously, in so doing – with Mr. Schreiber’s brown envelopes stuffed with cash.

The Inquiry finds that Brian Mulroney has brought disrepute to Canadian politics but he did nothing illegal or, even, improper. He displayed poor judgement – political and moral judgement – but that is neither criminal nor even “wrong.”

The Inquiry finds that Karlheinz Schreiber has lied in an effort to frustrate the proper and lawful efforts of the Government of Germany to extradite him.

The Inquiry finds that Jean Chrétien and Alan Rock abused their political power by initiating an unjustified RCMP with hunt based on baseless allegations by Stevie Cameron.

Finally, the Inquiry finds that its own work has been a colossal waste of money. There never was much in these allegations and the Inquiry found little new. Reputations have been tarnished – some deserved to be. Nothing else has been accomplished.



 
E.R. Campbell said:
The Inquiry accepts that rationale but finds that he erred, grievously, in so doing – with Mr. Schreiber’s brown envelopes stuffed with cash.

Nope, nothing suspicious about that.  People give each other cash in envelopes all the time.  Why, just the other day we sent our niece some cash in an envelope...    ::)
 
Greymatters said:
Nope, nothing suspicious about that.  People give each other cash in envelopes all the time.  Why, just the other day we sent our niece some cash in an envelope...    ::)

So what happened to MY envelope?  >:D
 
SeaKingTacco said:
Ummm...Arthur...you have to first win an election.
:D

:rage:

Next time, my UN friend.................................
 
Bane said:
       I don't have any care for Dion, Mulroney, Harper, Chretien or Dithers. I hope the very small sum of money that this will take nails a whole array of butts to the wall. It is also the oppositions DUTY to throw mud, attack, dig up skeletons and out maneuver the government. All sides do it, it's their job.

  The question is to what does it have to do with the current government, I will tell you what JACKSH*T. So why is that idiot Dion trying to waste more of our money, I know Mulrooney asked for this but it is the Liberals that are trying to get the blood of PM Harper.
 
Dion, Duceppe and Layton all hope they can tarnish Harper by trashing Mulroney - a fellow Conservative no matter how much Harper tries to keep him at a distance. That's why we're having the HoC Ethics Committee hearings. Nothing said inside the committee room is subject to libel/slander laws.

But, watch for the blowback. I think it will be obvious that Schreiber will be playing the committee as a ship of fools as he endeavours to use it to stay in Canada. Equally, I suspect, Mulroney has many arrows in his quiver and he will do his expert best to blacken everyone in the unholy Bloc-Liberal-NDP axis.
 
They are about to enter the Lion's cage without a chair.
This is all going to be so much fun to watch!

;D
 
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