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Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance

I was not asking anything.  I was just describing my personal experience.  I am quite sure that if required, I could have proven I had paraded with the other unit as I signed-in there and sat in the mess and people saw me and talked with me.  I was wearing a completely different cap badge, etc.  I could also prove that I did not receive the registered mail:

"Registered Mail is a service offered to customers who require proof of mailing and/or proof of delivery. The service secures the signature of the addressee or the addressee’s representative and provides the sender with a mailing receipt, a copy of the signature and the date upon delivery of the item."

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGregister-e.asp

I suppose, out of curiosity, I could ask what I should have done differently or what is the normal procedure.  I was just following the instructions given to me.  As it was it took considerably more time to get out of the military and more trouble because the unit had to drive me to CFB Borden to turn in all my kit.  I am considering joining the reserves again at this time and I wonder if they are any more organized today than they were back then.  Thanks.
 
NES - my fav  >:D  Fire them all, sue them all and be damn if I am sending an honourable release certificate.

First Registered Mail - we don't need to prove you recieved it, only that it was sent.  large number of times the member has moved without providing a new address so the notice will be returned unclaimed.  Even if it is signed for it doesn't have to be you, just someone at the address you provided. NES release continues.

Transfer Request - had to visit new unit? Wow.  Your unit sure liked to create extra work for themselves as they ended up dealing with a long distance release rather than setting up the transfer prior.  What should have happened was you submit the req through your chain.  Once the CO approves then the clerks send the req out through the command chain.  The gaining unit will do what they want to decide if they want you or not.  Some will talk to the Adjt of your unit, some will want to talk to you and some will even reply with a change to attach posting for obervation prior to a full posting.

What you should have done differently was submit your request well in advance and follow up on it.  By what you indicate you showed up at the new unit once, talked to the RSM and didn't go back or contact your unit thus the NES action.  I am betting more than 30 days had passed before they called you.

Seems to me the unit also went above and beyond to assist you.  They didn't have to drive you to Borden to return your kit, that is your responsibilty.

The system has changed and improved greatly.  We no longer have to go through all the stupid hoops that we had to back then to get rid of people that go NES.  Shorter and easier process now to the good bye door if your CO will follow regulations.

Did I mention I love NES?
 
In the past, did they not recover the monies in kit from NES folks who'd dropped off the face of the earth by going thru CRA and adding it onto your taxes somehow, or is that and old urban legend?
 
citydweller said:
I did not want to leave the military but figured I had no choice ...

Yet -

citydweller said:
I am quite sure that if required, I could have proven I had paraded with the other unit

So my question (as was Counts) was did you or did you not want to remain in the Reserves? Or just want a story to complain about how you were "wronged"? Another easy thing would have been to request the RSM, whom you had an intimate conversation with, contact you previous unit and say "By George, yes. He DID show up here." Unless there is a reason he couldn't vouch for you...
 
citydweller said:
How can they defend our country if they can't do something this simple?
The same way we defend the country with reservists who join the military to "help defend Canada" but never show up for work.

On occasion I've found that the reserve unit shits the bed and places members on NES and releases them without doing due diligence to get the member back in/follow the proper steps.

The majority of the time I've found it's because members were lazy, didn't want to honour their commitment and thought they could hide at home and ignore the army until they go away.

Dealing with irate parents making excuses for their children hiding in the basement was a favorite of mine.
 
Jarnhamar said:
Dealing with irate parents making excuses for their children hiding in the basement was a favorite of mine.

:eek:

That would be fun!  >:D
 
Eye In The Sky said:
In the past, did they not recover the monies in kit from NES folks who'd dropped off the face of the earth by going thru CRA and adding it onto your taxes somehow, or is that and old urban legend?

I think that one is an Urban Legend.  From what I understand, the Unit had to attempt recovery of the kit (ie; phone, mailed out letters, etc)  If the kit wasn't returned, it was costed out and the file sent into maybe the JAG realm in Ottawa.  At the end of the day, the debt to the Crown was sold to a Collection Agency.    hahaha

The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :eek:
 
DAA said:
I think that one is an Urban Legend.  From what I understand, the Unit had to attempt recovery of the kit (ie; phone, mailed out letters, etc)  If the kit wasn't returned, it was costed out and the file sent into maybe the JAG realm in Ottawa.  At the end of the day, the debt to the Crown was sold to a Collection Agency.    hahaha

The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :eek:

Actually, any government job, not just the CAF.
 
recceguy said:
Actually, any government job, not just the CAF.

Really?  Always wondered whether or not there would be some sort of "collateral" damage incurred.
 
The kit listing goes off to the JAG who will take whatever action to recover the funds.

Now mbrs can get back in but it is even more fun than the original enrolment.  I hear at least 2 years of jumping through hoops at the CFRC.  >:D  Sooo... isnt that what everyone is going through?

My issue with NES - you joined, agreed to parade and return your kit when leaving.  Instead walk off with thousands of dollars in kit and still get honourably released??  If a Cpl sitting in a jail can call to arrange for his kit return why can't the guy roaming free get it done?  Who really is the honourable one?
 
DAA said:
The really bad thing and kick to the family jewels, is that these people were usually released "5.f.".    Good luck getting back into any component of the CF as a result, because it ain't happening.      :eek:

Not quite true.  I am on a BOI right now for a Cpl who was released 5f late 1990s from Cornwallis.  Was re-enrolled into the regular force 7 years ago.  Only required a waiver from the CDS's office.  No other hoops to jump through other than the "normal" stuff.
 
Harris said:
I am on a BOI right now for a Cpl who was released 5f late 1990s from Cornwallis.  Was re-enrolled into the regular force 7 years ago.  Only required a waiver from the CDS's office.  No other hoops to jump through other than the "normal" stuff.

From what I understood of "5F Release questions/answers (merged)", overcoming a 5F sounds like a very high hoop.
 
Can someone confirm with me? I have seen many postings on this thread saying NES is missing 3 consecutive training days and some saying 5 training days? can anyone confirm? thanks
 
I swore in last week, but i was unsure of when I would be swearing in so I have a 2 week vacation booked 3 weeks from now. In which I'll be missing 3 parade nights. Now I'm wondering should I put in an EDandT request to avoid going NES or just inform them that I will be gone for 3 parade nights.
 
Dab22 said:
I swore in last week, but i was unsure of when I would be swearing in so I have a 2 week vacation booked 3 weeks from now. In which I'll be missing 3 parade nights. Now I'm wondering should I put in an EDandT request to avoid going NES or just inform them that I will be gone for 3 parade nights.

Just inform your Chain of Command that you will be absent, explain why. They will note it and be filed as an excused absence. No need for ED&T unless you're going to be absent for a long period of time etc.
Aaron97 said:
Can someone confirm with me? I have seen many postings on this thread saying NES is missing 3 consecutive training days and some saying 5 training days? can anyone confirm? thanks

The minimum service obligation is one period of duty every 30 days. Essentially, 1 parade night a month. If you are not meeting that, they will attempt to contact you to make sure you're in good health and safe; if there are extenuating circumstances they will help you and get you an LOA/ED&T. However if it's just because you couldn't be bothered and only show up once every couple of months you will be processed for NES and subsequently an administrative release.
 
That is a unit specific answer and may not apply.  Here if you are going to miss a 30 day period we expect you to put in for ED&T or the CO will get an NES form to sign as per CF Regulations.  Too often people inform their C of C such as the MCpl or Sgt who simply are not the ones that have authority in the matter and it stops there rather than getting actioned properly.  The CO approves or recommends ED&T depending on length and approves NES.  Declaring mbrs NES is a benefit to the unit as you now have an ongoing record of NES periods to support either a directed ED&T period or an admin release for the member that plays the game of showing up once in a blue moon to keep from getting NES Released.

People often forget about the possible implications, I know this place did until we actioned the PIL.  Nothing like having a guy that hasn't paraded in 2 years and should have been released NES getting money for that period to wake people up.  Then there is the good old "Sir, here is the CD for Cpl Bloggins who hasn't paraded in X years and shouldn't get this but because you didn't want to release him NES now is entitled to it".    One of my favs though is when they want to transfer a Sgt/WO or Officer in and there are no positions available because they wouldn't action the NES.  Basically anything based on time served this person is getting credit for even though they are not parading.

Mind you I am bias - I hate people going NES, got really tired of people disappearing with thousands of dollars in kit with no repercussions, creating a crap load of work for me and then at the end of it I had to do a certificate stating they were Honourably Released.  BS - where is the honour in that. Don't want to be in then do the honourable thing, hand in your kit and request release.
 
Hello,

I am currently in the Reserve Force and had recently found out I will be doing BMQ and BMQ-L in the summer. With that said, I will need to have my 3 out of my 4 Thursday parade nights off to attend my driving class as I am hoping to get my license before BMQ as by time I get back from my BMQ courses, my L license would be expiring in a few days. As of now, I do come into work with my reserve unit for GD's twice a week.

I am wondering if the above example would still be seen as "acceptable" or would I be viewed as "one of those guys" who only show up to parade nights once a month as I will be missing 3 out of the 4 parade nights, but I do work 2 other days (full days) at my reserve unit every week.

I have even heard of another NCO saying he does it too make up for his parade nights as he has conflicts with his civilian work. However, he's an NCO so im wondering if there are different expectations for a junior member?

thanks
 
I recommend you submit a memo outlining the reasons for your not attending. That being said, the requirement is one training night in a 30 day period, where the unit normally paraded.

My unit doesn't conduct training nights in the summer, so it's not uncommon for people to miss 60 days with no repercussions.
 
What's the actual period of NES? I can't find it in the MHRRP.

The staffing form says:

"Last Attendance. The member's last attendance day was on: ______"
"Non-Effective Status. Since the member's last attendance there have been three unit duty periods and at least 30 days elapsed as of: ________"

"Declaration: I declare the member to be non-effective and authorize NES status as of the following date: __"

Note: Non-Effective date cannot be earlier than signature date of the CO

It's the bit in yellow that really gets me. Why can't he be considered NES as of the day that "30 days" elapsed?

Say the member last paraded on October 1st. We're super busy and don't catch it until November 20th. The member, in my view, was NES as of the 30th of October, but the CO doesn't sign the paperwork until November 20th, so he's not considered "NES" until November 20th. Let's say the member is contacted and resumes parading on the 30th of November.

Period of NES don't count toward time in rank, seniority, pension, etc. In my example above, what period of time would the member have removed from his service? Would it be from October 1st to November 30th? Or just from November 20th to November 30th?

Differemt scenario:
Let's say, unbeknownst to me, the member actually came in to submit ED&T paperwork on the 15th of November. He signed a pay sheet, but it hasn't yet been processed, so we didn't notice it.

The member was, by definition, NES as of the 30th of October, but the form won't be signed until the 20th of November, and actually, the member has already "resumed" parading as of the 15th of November. Does he not get any ED&T time? This might not be a a great example, because we're onyl talking about 1 month here.

What about some cases where I've heard of a member being away from the unti for 6 months or more without anyone noticing. Does he only get time removed from the date the CO officially labelled him "NES"? What if he also came in a few days before that to submit release paperwork; would he still get all that time away from the unit toward his pension?

I'd like to believe that the "declaring of NES" is merely a title, and the actual time-frame for NES begins with the date listed as "Last Attendance" above, but I can't find a reference to clearly say that.
 
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