Non-Issue Equipment

[tacsit]

Kevin, good post. Few questions. Where'd you get the CADPAT AR chest rig and care to share pics? How do you have your 64 pattern ruck set up, any particular mods? Any pics of this USMC CFP-90 type ruck?

Also, for anybody interested, Mystery Ranch (www.mysteryranch.com) has come out with a new internal frame designed to integrate with the USGI ALICE pack called the NICE frame. From the reviews I've heard it's quite comfy. I'm right now in the process of sending down to Mystery Ranch a Drop Zone Tactical modular 64 pattern sack and a CF issue velise for them to attach to the frame, upon which time they'll ship it back up to me to T&E (I'll be posting my tests, thoughts, and pics on this board once I've gotten some hands on time with the design). I think that should make even the 82 pattern ruck (if you can fit it on there) very comfortable.

 

[KevinB]

I will post some pics of the ruck (USMC) tomorrow all my kit is at home now as well have to clean out our lockers at work when we go  : - and it is strewn all over hells half acre (and I am bumming from the election)

My '64 has a MatTech done back pad / chest straps - a bag done by a guy at work and moddified by A&D Tactical of Calgary - A7A straps and a DZ large compression sack.  I lost interest in external frame rucks when down at the USMC Mountain Warfare School in 97 as I almost had my head decapitated with my '64 while attempting to decend a mountain

The Vests are a takeoff of an Arktis pattern with some locally designed mods by one of our guys - they were done up by Dave of A&D Tactical as well.


I think as soon as I bank enough of my Afghan coin I will spring for the Kifaru as some feedback I have gotten from friends using them is outstanding.

Hopefully my RAV has come in then too...

 

[Infanteer]

Ohh...all this kit slut talk is getting me excited... :warstory:

 

[Danjanou]

Someone get Infanteer a Kleenex. :

Seriously I do see both sides of the argument. Like Strato I've had to enforce the whole non-issue kit thing whether I liked it or not.

As a former CSM, I was along the lines of if it's green and you can show me it works then bring it (within reason). In fact if it really worked then lets try and get enough for everyone. Often trial and error decides if a piece of Gucci kit lasts more than one ex.

However it is often a unit thing. Just before I packed it in we got a new RSM. He was rather anal about the non-issue kit thing and seemed to be under the impression that the boonies were an extension of the parade square. As CSM I had to, reluctantly, enforce his rules. The man was really picky and even IIRC took offence at my non issue (black) gloves, in front of my company.

 

[tacsit]

Kevin, sprung for a RAV eh? You know every kit slut here's gonna be like Infanteer when they hear that  . To be honest, I'd love a Kifaru myself, but I can't justify spending $700 CDN on a ruck like that. Also, I prefer a ruck with numerous external pockets, and with a ruck the size of the EMR adding external pockets is, quite simply, overkill. Not to mention that PALS compatible pockets are freakin expensive these days. A few external pockets from Kifaru can run you over $100 USD quite easily. The reason I'm going with the NICE frame with 64 pattern sack and velise is that a.) I think that'd be found to be more acceptable by the kit nazis than something like a Kifaru and b.) the NICE frame pretty much is a nice comfy internal frame, and it's pretty cheap as well ($219 USD, then get a 64 pattern sack for relatively cheap and you're set), so if my ruck gets shot up, broken somehow, stolen, etc., I'm not out over $700 CDN. Does A&D tactical have a website? Looking forward to pics of your ruck bud.

 

[strat0]

As I stated before:

I can't speak for other trades, I know in the Armoured Corps it is enforced.

I'm not saying I agree with the policy but that is it. If CO's and RSM's give permission that's great. I can only speak for the Armoured Corps.

enough said from me.
Cheers

 

[KevinB]

strat0,

I understand where you are coming from, however I have seen Armd Recce guys with some gucci kit too.

Like anything, the further you are out and away on your own the easier it is to employ common sense kit.



Tacsit - if my ruck gets shot up the least of my worries is that I just pissed away $700...

 

[tacsit]

Ok granted while on the two way range you won't be thinking much about that... but I garauntee that when things calm down you're gonna be kicking yourself  .

 

[KevinB]

MARPAT RUCK
With TACVEST and Hydration system

It is very comfortable

 

[KevinB]

Argh - did not see the guntape on the bottom until the pic came out on here...
  anyway disregard that.  :-[

 

[pvandoremalen]

I agree the 82 style rucksack is not up to job. The frame is a joke it cracks under strain from combat loads. If you have to get a ruck make it a 64, most dudes use them and the Sgt. Major shouldn't have to much of a problem with a troop using them. I took mine to the riggers and they added more straps to mount water carriers on the sides of the main pack. We can't get away with Gucci packs like the ones you've all been talking about. 64S are simple and easy to use after replacing your retaining straps with A7A straps. I'm probably not telling anybody anything new here but I've seen way to many dudes carrying swat packs and everything under the sun. Good kit is always good but it shouldn't convert the appearance of your unit into a band of roving gypsies who just knocked off a surplus store.

 

[KevinB]

Good kit is always good but it shouldn't convert the appearance of your unit into a band of roving gypsies who just knocked off a surplus store.

;D

 

[CF_Lifer]

Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack. I've used it in the dead of winter, -36, with a rather hefty load. We're talking upwards of 80lbs, and I've never really had a problem. I must admit, the frame is awfully flimsy, being made of the very thin metal wire. Although I cant really compare it to other packs, I've only ever used this one, and gucci civvie ones. The only thing I didn't like....was wearing it with webbing. Sometimes I didn't even take off the Butt Pack from the webbing, just emptied it and kept going. I'm sure the new Rucks will be an improvement....if we ever see them.

P.S - Smooth Gypsie remark

 

[KevinB]

Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack.

:
Well I guess your that 1% --

 

[MJP]

Yea wait till you actually have to use the 82 for real military purposes.....then maybe come on back and tell us about how great it is.  Take it from the guys with the experience, the ruck is a POS. 

 

[Infanteer]

Personally, I've never had a problem with my '82 pack.

How can you be a "CF Lifer" with actual experience with the '82 pattern ruck when you are 17 and not even in the military?

 

[Danjanou]

Guys play nice with him. He's probably used the 82 pack a hundred zillion times playing nintentodJTF2sniper SEAL on his PS2, which makes him waay more qualified than us. ;D

CF lifer friendly piece of advice, watch and learn here and then contribute only when you have something relevant to add. We have no objections to 17 yr old kids interested in the Army and waiting to join up on the site per say. Hey we all were one at some time ourselves, and some of us even have 17 year old kids. Be honest with who you are here and you'll be in for a lot less grief.

Back to the topic at hand. The only thing I liked about the 82, was the bag, heavily modified with extra and better straps and heavy duty fast ex buckles, and married to my 64 pattern frame.

 

[muskrat89]

All this talk of "packs" and "rucksacks".....  ???  Oh - are those the things you throw in the back of CPs and Gun-tractors?  Bruce - do you know?   

 

[Matt_Fisher]

No Offence Muskrat, but that's exactly the kind of mentality why the Mortars should never have been put into Arty.  The lifestyle change of having to ditch the comfort of the gun-tractor and go to a spartan existence where you live out of what you carry, plus the mortar tube or the baseplate or the T&E mechanism and the sight and the ballistic computer, etc. is pretty foreign to someone that's never or hasn't been in that situation or bare-gones existence in the field.

When I was in the CFs I was armoured and there was a huuuge "I'm a blackhat and I just have to ride around the battlefield.  It's beneath me to ruck or patrol on foot.  If I wanted to do that I'd have gone infantry, etc" to the point where it severely limited our thinking and actions.  Basically we got fat and lazy.

Not to say that when you're in a situation where you can afford to be comfortable, you shouldn't, because that's just plain stupid.  However, always keep in mind that there may be times when you've got to live sparsely with wearing the same pair of combats for a week, washing socks in your canteen cup, living on 2 IMPs a day, etc.

It's pretty common for mortarmen in the Marines to do 20k ruck marches with a full ruck, plus their 81mm tube over their shoulder, Jesus crucifix style or baseplate or the associated other gear strapped to their ruck.

 

[Firepower]

Matt is right(somewhat), while Arty has always been in support of the other arms, this is going to place them in with the Infantry, Army units are all about standing out. Mortar platoon doesn't have the same ring as Gun Battery . We don't have quite the luxury of the armoured, because we still have to do patrols an actually get out of the tractor to fire(ooh dirty).



I can just see Arty reserve units with mortars being asked to do alot of excercises for the reserve Infantry, because they don't need to sacrifice guys to do it. There is going to be a big demand that the arty guys may not be able to commit to.