• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Non-Issue Kit

Recently reported in the Calgary Herald:
"Frustrated by having to wear boreal green camouflage uniforms in a desert environment, Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan began slapping brown latex paint onto their rifles, bulletproof vests and other equipment Thursday.
Contingent commander Lt.-Col. Pat Stogran termed the chameleon-like change by the 28 soldiers in one company of the Princess Patricia‘s Canadian Light Infantry an example of the initiative he expects from his soldiers. One infantry officer characterized it as traditional Canadian make-do.
"It‘s a case of improvise, adapt and overcome," said Maj. Mike Blackburn, commander of 5 Platoon, Bravo Company.
Blackburn‘s soldiers used all manner of techniques to copy the desert camouflage of their American colleagues.
Using paint scrounged from a source they refused to divulge, the soldiers drenched their fabric helmet covers, splashed their bulletproof vests, painted their black gun barrels and daubed the stocks of their machine guns.
To imitate the texture of the desert terrain, some soldiers poured fine brown sand onto the wet paint. Others covered sections of their rifles with desert-camouflage tape. They‘d purchased a $25 roll of the tape from a gun and military memorabilia store before leaving Edmonton.
"I don‘t suppose the government will be reimbursing us," said one soldier.
The browning of Blackburn‘s soldiers will now be copied by all 750 soldiers of the Canadian contingent, said Stogran.
"Camouflage is very much an individual thing. It is certainly in our bag of tricks to do this," he said.
The Canadian army unveiled its new line of desert camouflage battle gear this week, but the first uniforms aren‘t expected to be distributed to soldiers in the field until the summer, too late for the soldiers now in Afghanistan.
It‘s better to adapt than to whine, Stogran said.
"We have to focus on mission success and not cry about spilled milk," he said.
Make-do desert camouflage is nothing new for Canadians, one soldier said. Similar adaptations were made in Somalia but the improvisations of Blackburn‘s soldiers go far beyond paint and tape.
Cpl. Chris Arnott was a walking example of the art of improvisation. On his right shoulder, Arnott sported a small two-way radio, one of a pair purchased from Future Shop for $70. It will allow him to stay in touch with his section buddy when conditions allow unrestricted radio communication.
Arnott bought extra pouches so he could carry more magazines of ammunition for his assault rifle. Since his rifle is equipped with a grenade launcher, he also bought a $50 American vest designed to hold 36 grenades.
"The army gave us bandoleers to carry our grenades but bandoleers jump and jostle when we‘re moving," he explained.
Strapped to his right thigh were three more rifle ammunition pouches, stitched together by a friend in Edmonton. He can now carry a total of 13 magazines, each filled with 30 bullets.
Each of his ammunition pouches -- the ones issued to him by the army as well as his personal ones -- was held closed with a snap-fastener purchased from Mountain Equipment Co-op rather than the army-issue fastener, which he finds difficult to close.
Change was the order of the day Thursday. Some soldiers stripped the pouch pockets off the front of their jackets and sewed them onto their sleeves.
"If it‘s on the front of your jacket, you can‘t get into them once you‘ve put your bulletproof vest over top," one soldier explained.
Before he left Edmonton, Arnott also picked up a pair of kneepads similar to the ones supplied to American foot soldiers. At Mountain Equipment Co-op he purchased additional gloves. To put it all in, he had to buy an extra-large Co-op bag.
"I spent $300 of my own money," Arnott said. "It‘s worth it though, if it can add to my comfort, speed and safety."

Good God Almighty, why are those young rastabouts not being brought up on charges? How dare they imply NDHQ and the CDS have not given them the best, most up to date equipment available to any soldiers around the world today? They should be ashamed to be playing the parts of clowns in such a circus.

So much for not being able to customize you kit in the Almighty Reg F. (This is the point where I and my fellow Res rats should bow in awestruck reverence.) But I‘m sure the RSM will start taking heads for his desk soon enough.

Remember Egg‘s mantra: We are the best equipped and trained army to ever grace a battlefield.
 
hmm... breast pockets move dto shoulders... Good idea. I think I‘ll have to write some of that stuff down.

"With the best against (until we get to stressed) the Best (Third World)(as long as the US takes us there)"
 
You know someone up the CofC will go BALLISTIC soon... troops painting CADPAT!!! I admit they are destroying the uniform, but I agree they are adapting to the situation. This is what you get when you neglect your military. :cdn:
 
I guess the point I was trying to make, the clothes don‘t make the soldier. I omitted operations when I mentioned none issue kit, because when the bullets are or maybe flying, the self presevation and adaptation make sence as witnessed by 3 PPCLI.

However most of us back here are not in that position. I defy anyone that he needs to modify his clothing/eqpt to carry 13 mag during trg.

Yes we have shortfalls and inadquacies, but there must be limits. In peacetime, go to the field and when you find a an ex were indivuals are allowed to use and carry all types of non-issue, you will probably find a breakdown in discpline somewhere along the line, from the RSM on down.

The mistake a lot make is that having all this type of kit makes them a soldier. Wrong, your skills make you a sodlier, and dress and deportment show you are are soldier. Don‘t get me wrong. When the sh** hits the fan, you adapt to survive. I‘s find ways to carry as much ammo and a pistol to boot. But we are not at war or operations and there fore should set some sort of boundries.
 
Agreed, limits should be set..however, they should be fairly loose. The old maxim "train like you fight, fight like you train" comes to mind here.

My feet and back can be destroyed by years of ex‘s just as well as an operation. The notion of hundreds of soldiers lining up at MEC to buy evetrything they actually need to fight just before leaving is doesn‘t seem right. I thought the idea of training was to replicate the conditions of war as closely as possible? Why should the rules change when you hit the ground for real? Everything like that should have been sorted out LONG before you land...
Besides, it‘s not like the public ever actually sees Canadian soldiers (and if they do the chances of them recognizing them as Cdn soldiers is small)
 
hmmm ... uniform ... uniform ... hmmm ...
Once upon a time, didn‘t we all wear the same uniform, in order to distinguish friendly from enemy ... or is it just my imagination ... ?

Unfortunately, I‘m marooned in Nova Scotia (without my reference books), but I definitely remember reading a story from WWII - at a captured airfied in France, a Canadian was fooling around with some captured German kit, namely a helmet ... a senty plugged him, dead.

Also, I sure hope the latex paint doesn‘t mess up the anti-IR signature - sure would be unfortunate if it were to turn out they‘d inadvertently destroyed the protective qualities of their issue uniforms (and, I sure hope the paint they‘re using isn‘t that carcinogenic stuff ...)

Bottom line: I sure hope none of our guys buys it due to stupidity (and you can read into that whatever you like).
Dileas Gu Brath.
MB :cdn:
 
Bossi is right. Uniforms were introduced so we could distinguish friend from foe. But over time that aim has somewhat changed... now the uniform is also practical, part of the protective system of the soldier. That said, I do not believe an extra water bottle or a few mags will make a very big difference, or signal a breakdown in discipline. :cdn:
 
A lot of good point‘s have been made on this thread!

The one thing that made me give my head a shake was when I read the new CadPat is made from Nylon/Cotton mix just the same a the present combat‘s and we all know how they melt,I thought were going to all Cotton like other Force‘s as cotton is warmer and more fire resistant and doesnt stick to your skin when afire.

The reason I mention this is just after the Falkland‘s War the Brit‘s released a study of battle field injuries and top of the list was burn‘s then foot related injuries as at the time the Brit boot‘s were crap.

Any one out there have any idea‘s why we are still using Nylon/Cotton mix ,cost?
 
The troops like the nylon/cotton mix because it dries fast... cotton only will absorb up to 25 times it‘s weight in water. But when it burns... that has not been tried on the troops during the trials. :cdn:
 
I once took instruction from an old (read Korean War) RCR CSM. The very topic of personal ancilliary equipment was talked about in our patrolling phase. His comments on the subject were that you must carry your issue equip because that‘s what the supply system will be set up for. As far as weapons, ditto, but if you wanted to carry something extra be it a knife of whatever type or a twelve gauge trench gun, the ammo, maint and lugging it were your responsibility. It‘s largely a morale factor, and if a person was hurt (wounded) because he felt you didn‘t let him carry his extra gear, you‘ve just created a major problem. Right or wrong? Sorry I‘ll defer to practical experience.
 
Sorry about the Hon. Art Eggleton thing its just hes a bit of a scrooge when it comes to funding, and Ill concur on that seeing as how I have Scholarship Exams for my Six week Survival Course next week in Ponoka Ab.
And thanks as well for the Comment on the Resemblence to a type 82 pattern rig, My Father
Mcpl Race Dixon who was Airborne (Service Commando) during most of his 16 years with the forces helped me set it up.

Well got to Go Im teaching tonite at my Sqn. a class on Knife Sharpening!
Hehe....Someone call the medics Now :mg:
 
NON ISSUE KIT!!!- my belly is laughing sooo hard , i think, i‘m gonna pee! 1. having been RCR(for a long while ),( i understand the ‘ANAL " attitude) there is a lot of "neat stuff" out there( it‘s great to have and carry) 2. the stuff you are issued ,is issued, for a REASON ( the minimum amount of kit you DO need) 3. did i carry extra stuff ? yep , out of sight! 3. now being Res F, I allow myself a little "flexibilty". 4. do i put up with Purple/lime green camel baks in the field , on my troops?med Blue polypro/polar fleece? SORRY, NO! 5. we are about 15 -20 yrs behind the brits as to understanding some kit works,some doesn‘t, that‘s why the Clothe the Soldier program is implemented ( toooo bad, not in time for us to deploy to afghanistan!) 5. if you WANT to spend the $$$, and can Hump it, carry it. ( just make sure you use it). if its on your webbing/body to look cool, you are an IDIOT!! :rolleyes:
 
Some of you guys sound like you are permanently on course! Lol

And you, Recce 41 (I don’t really care what RCA has to say), of all people surprised me with your issued kit drivel. (Tisk, Tisk) I suppose you haven’t had a decent night’s rest since Strogan’s boys painted their uniforms desert tan :)

Enfield and Recceguy make sense. Wear what you need within reason/taste when in the field (if you don’t know you will be told).

Uniformity has it’s place – on the parade square!
 
There is nothing on earth so anal as a Guards Snr NCO when it comes to uniformity and appearance. That being said, my Pl was free to wear whatever they wanted, so long as I didn‘t "see" it. I took great pains not to "see" an OD polar fleece (before they were issue) or polypro thermals. I myself wore a Remington OD gore-tex jacket whenever it rained...but I wore it under my cbt shirt or issue raingear. I drew the line at purple neck warmers and US cam LBVs.
There is a need for uniformity that goes beyond simply being anal, or for appearance sake. For example, in my Pl and indeed throughout the Company, field dressings were ALWAYS to be found in the small utility pouch on the left side of the 82 webbing. Why? If a soldier is wounded, you use HIS/HER field dressing, not your own dressing. Extra ammo was always carried in the butt pack and the center outside pouch of the rucksack for the same reason.
On the other hand, my one enduring legacy at my unit is this saying: "Any idiot can be uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable does not require practice, it comes naturally when the circumstances warrant it."
I felt quite comfortable sleeping in my Mont-Bell -12C sleeping bag inside my bivvy. Why? Because it only weighs 4 pounds, and is a better piece of kit than issue.

Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense
11 Sunray Minor (Ret‘d)
 
"any idoit can be uncomfortable" always loved that one.

Another favourite saying for all those diehard rambo types:

"There is a thin line between being hard and being stupid, Bloggins I think you just crossed it"

In keeping with this whole kit issue comfortability to me is the compelling reason to buy all the gucci crap, as apose to servicability and usability. Getting all the high speed stuff would be great, gortex everything and a sleeping bag the size of a bread loaf. But practically speaking all the cool stuff is darn expensive ... trust me I looked ... and last time I checked my pay stub us grunts dont make too much money. Previous posts have mentioned that purchasing high tech kit shows initiative in your trade. I agree but here is another idea, why not shift that initiative to actually working on field craft and useful battle skills. Ive overheard dozens of FNGs talking about how poorly equipped we are compared to other armies, spend hundreds on gucci gear and GPS and complain they get cant get good taskings or get on recce courses. But at the same time they cant use a map and compass, there IA drills are horrible (and dangerous) and they have trouble working the bloody coleman stove and lantern.
The only people Ive seen decked out in all the high speed kit are the newer privates and maybe a few cpls. The NCOs instead figure out how to make the best of what they get, few alterations to webbing and ruck but still mostly issued stuff. Im talking about actually wearing the 82 webbing properly and correctly assembling (all those strap jobbies) and packing issued rucks. Now I am totally against those back breaking anomolies but will admit when worn and assemblied correctly will fit better than the kit bomb packs found on many recruits. Now like most of you I too am waiting for CTS gear and I have been "sized" for CADPAT, and am expecting to get my kit within the next 8 to 10 decades. So be it. I have better things to do while I wait besides complaining, like actually learning and helping out the new guys. Now dont get me wrong any idoit can be uncomfortable... and also broke. Ill admit to buying a few things here and there. One is my camelbak . The more water the better and its easier to drink on the move. Second is a set of kneepads worn semi-comfortably under combatpants, cause the mashed up joints is usually found in the more experienced types and Im looking to gain lots of experience. These are a few items that are pretty cheap to come buy and are actually useful. Another thing I noticed with non-issue, is the servicability factor. The kit is good to have but expensive, and not issued throughthe supplie train. You rip your cbt pants or what not you can get it replaced for free (givin the proper circumstance). But with the your own stuff you break it too bad so sad. Your sgt aint gonna care about you $200 dollar gortex LBV getting dirty when he‘s screaming at you to crawl up and take a trench.

So here are a few of my opinions on non-issue kit. If I have offended anyone, sorry. I am just giving advice based on past experience and dont mean to offend anyone. Gucci kit is nice to have but is certainly not needed. Yes it is a crying shame that are kit is 50 yrs old and that were have to spray paint it to keep up with the rest of the world. But in the end we are still soldiers .... so soldier on
 
Gucci Kit...hehe
I just spent this Thursday and Last thursday teaching and Lecturing on Boonie Kit and the Old Combats that they(Our Supply officer and Survival Instructor) "Skillfully Aquire" from 3 PPCLI and the LER just before they throw them out so that our cadet will at least feel speacial when we run a weekend ex. So these cadets get their Cammies and then they Haul the Mom‘s and Pops to Edmonton to goto the Canex and to Milarm (www.milarm.com) to buy all the Gucci and Hi tech kit they can. Next week they come back with a full 30 pds or more of unneeded Sh**, and i then have to explain to them that if they want to bring this that they will have to carry all bye the selves. I am the Air equivelant of a CSM and picture this a four foot little kid weighs 85 pds, his only skill is he cant detach his joints and spin his arms and legs around, and he has gear out the wazoo and he looks ready to kill, excluding the fact that he can barely move!
I myself usually bring more than the average person on these trips including a canadian issue Trenching shovel ($20 Buck in new cond at Milarm in Edmonton) and a one man Bivy cover so i can abandon the cabins at our camp in athabasca. I carry this because I can and because I will not complain, but i usually have to bring in my Buttpack 2 or three extra pairs of gloves and wollie socks for the cadet who have forgetten theirs, just to ease their time of four days in the bush (No more than four usually wouldnt want to actually get them used to the boonies) but i say if your going to buy new Kit or extraaneous kit clear it with your RSM and CSM first then see if it is actually useful, if not Leave it at home. For the best results stick with yyour Issue Gear, its old But you‘ll be reciving your new Cadpat LBV soon enough.

By the way this is off topic but i shot a 96 out of 100 on a marksmanship competition for cadets Last week, now to Convince my dad that i can shoot well enough to get my own rifle
:sniper:
Dixon Out
 
Heres a tip, try not packing extra socks and I can guarantee you that your troop loops will never ever forget extra socks or gloves

Try the PWT 3 ( or is it 4) with the run down - fun times - just be sure to fire on your own target !!!!!

:mg:
 
My last word on non-issue kit..."One man, one kit." Meaning, your rucksack goes EVERYWHERE with you. If you still think that your hi-speed, low-drag Gucci kit is worth its weight after carrying it on a 48hr patrol...well then it must be useful. I used to find that after the first long-range patrolling ex, rucksacks would suddenly get ALOT lighter on the next go-around.

As for the hi-tech stuff being expensive, my wife and I had an understanding about my military pay...it was all for the Mess and new kit. Nice to be able to afford it (after many years of going without)
On the other hand, she immediately laid claim to the retirement gratuity (about $5K) on the grounds that SHE had earned it over the last 12 years...not a bad point. :)
 
Looking at the kit soldiers have made do with for the past 200 years, I don‘t think we‘re doing too badly even with the pre-CTS stuff.

Lessons learned hard are learned well.
 
Well Blacky and others I‘ been Recce most of my Armour Career and you hump with you what you need. I‘ve been on a LRRPs, where you care your Ammo, Water/Rations and a change of socks/tshirt. Also a Jumper you learn that can‘t bring you Guchi kit. So grow up get out of the Res thought, that is one reason us Regs look down on some of you. Yes some kit is good, camelbacks, a fleece. But your kick *** webbing would not go good. If I saw some dumbie with S*** on his ruck are webbing I wouldn‘t allow him to Jump.
When we had those trusty lil Lynxs you never had room for extra kit. So like I said get withthe system, we‘re had good kit and getting better So not F*** withthe system.

Sgt J. CD,CDS com " Airborne, Bold and Swift" :tank:
 
Back
Top