Not meeting physical requirments

[jwtg]

Is it possible that pushups aren't really a good measure of strength?  The army must think so or they wouldn't be changing the express test.  Anyway. That's just my thoughts.

I'm with PuckChaser for the most part.  The fitness standards are freely available on the internet, and everyone has every opportunity to know what level of fitness they require before joining.  Onus is on them to reach (or exceed) that standard before they get there- besides, the EXPRES test is absurdly easy, and most girls can reach the required amount of push ups if they train properly for long enough before arriving.

That being said, I agree with your last statement.  I think push-ups are kind of a dumb measurement of strength; at best, they're strength relative to body weight (impeded somewhat by arm length).

New FORCE test was fun because everyone had to lift/carry/drag the same weight, no matter their height/weight/strength.

 

[Mom150]

I definitely see where you are coming from.  She thought she was prepared.  What should she have done once she was there?  She wasn't going to quit.  All I am saying is since they have already invested so much (not that I think the system is right) I think the test should be performed before basic training, they should evaluate what she has accomplished and how close she is. They could spend very little more to get her there rather than throw away what's already been spent.  Again, I realize what you are saying. 

 

[AgentSmith]

I definitely see where you are coming from.  She thought she was prepared.  What should she have done once she was there?  She wasn't going to quit.  All I am saying is since they have already invested so much (not that I think the system is right) I think the test should be performed before basic training, they should evaluate what she has accomplished and how close she is. They could spend very little more to get her there rather than throw away what's already been spent.  Again, I realize what you are saying.

She obviously thought wrong then. Like others have said, the standards are out there the internet so she should have been practicing well before she arrived for BMQ.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

My daughter went to cflrs and failed her express test for push ups.  She didn't give up.  She went to warrior platoon for almost 90 days and passed.  She went to platoon.  She absolutely loved everything about it and did very well.  Her pushups improved but only to 7 counted.  She retested in week 10 and failed again.  Having used up her time in warrior, she will now have to go home.  Does anyone else think this is a little absurd?  The military has invested so much time and money on her and now they just release her when she is so close?  Especially when they know that in the next year this test will no longer exist??  It just seems like such a waste of effort.  She really did excel otherwise.  She is strong, no problems with the 13k ruck march or obstacle course.  Is it possible that pushups aren't really a good measure of strength?  The army must think so or they wouldn't be changing the express test.  Anyway. That's just my thoughts.

While I understand your concern over your daughter's loss and need to protect her well-being, I feel very strongly that something is incredibly wrong with her not being able to have met the minimum 9 push-up requirement initially.  While push-ups in general can be difficult for women, even moreso when hands/thumbs are to be under their shoulders, being able to achieve 9 is far from an impossible task and she knew what she had to achieve well in advance of arriving to the 'physical' stage.  I am of the opinion that the military went above and beyond to try and help her achieve all of the elements required.

As a 34yr. old, fairly petite woman, push-ups were the most difficult aspect for me to improve upon, but I did it. I did/continue to do push-ups every day, as well as other upper-body strength training to keep my standards and count up.  In my opinion, if she needed extra time to reach the standard in that specific area, then she should have prepared adequately.

I'm sure the disappointment for her of having failed is extremely disheartening--both for you and she. But if it's something she truly wants, then this will have been an extremely important and eye-opening experience/lesson that will help prepare her if she tries again.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If your daughter was sick and needed surgery would you be okay with a doctor operating on her who didn't pass but tried really hardand improved a lot and almost passed?

It sucks for your daughter but we need to draw a line somewhere.

The fact is the Canadian tax payers kindly paid your daughter for 3 months salary (with  housing and food) to do 9 pushups and she couldn't.  How long should the tax payers pay her to eat and work out. 6 months, a year?

Your daughter can always reapply after the new test is in.

 

[brihard]

My daughter went to cflrs and failed her express test for push ups.  She didn't give up.  She went to warrior platoon for almost 90 days and passed.  She went to platoon.  She absolutely loved everything about it and did very well.  Her pushups improved but only to 7 counted.  She retested in week 10 and failed again.  Having used up her time in warrior, she will now have to go home.  Does anyone else think this is a little absurd?  The military has invested so much time and money on her and now they just release her when she is so close?  Especially when they know that in the next year this test will no longer exist??  It just seems like such a waste of effort.  She really did excel otherwise.  She is strong, no problems with the 13k ruck march or obstacle course.  Is it possible that pushups aren't really a good measure of strength?  The army must think so or they wouldn't be changing the express test.  Anyway. That's just my thoughts.

Look, this is going to be harsh, but I'll give you an honest answer. I believe your daughter failed herself for not preparing herself adequately, however she was subsequently failed by the system because they nonetheless allowed her to continue and to get her hopes up.

The physical requirements are NOT hard. They're extremely low in fact. I would say embarrassingly so. Every member of the Canadian military is expected to be able to do certain physical tasks, and some are hard. There is no trade that will never necessarily be subject to physical labour. Any trade could potentially have to literally fight for their life, though of course for most this is exceptionally rare. Your daughter's lack of physical strength presents an unjustifiable risk to herself and to her buddies.

I fully agree that physical testing should be done before they can even enrol. It is for the reserves. It's embarrassing that for the regular force it is not. The concept of a military not requiring certain physical performance before getting in blows my mind, but there we have it.

Your daughter knows the standards now. IF she really wants it, I highly encourage her to continue working on her physical fitness and to get to where she needs to be, and then to reapply.

 

[Mom150]

The thing is, knowing what she knows now, she would have waited.  It all happened pretty fast for her.  She feels awful about wasting tax payers dollars.  Unlike a doctor, not being able to perform 2 more perfect pushups doesn't really make her that much less of a soldier.  In my opinion anyway.  I get that the line needs to be drawn too.  Also though, they will continue to pay her for probably another month before they release her when she could be actually accomplishing the damn push ups in that time!

 

[PuckChaser]

Unlike a doctor, not being able to perform 2 more perfect pushups doesn't really make her that much less of a soldier.  In my opinion anyway.

Unless you're a solider yourself, I don't think you're able to adequately comment on what we require to do as a member of the CF. A lot of people here will speak ill of the EXPRES test and pushups as a measure of strength, but each of those same pers applied themselves and passed the test as is, without complaint. When I joined the CF, you needed an EXPRES test before you were enrolled. I failed for pushups because I took it for granted that I was in shape. Worked out and passed a year later. Its good that your daughter feels bad for wasting people's money and time. Now she just needs to apply herself to getting fit like she was supposed to do on Warrior Platoon in the first place. There's no secrets to the EXPRES test, its a minimum standard and unless she has a physiological limitation or disability its a very attainable standard with the right kind of mental focus.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This story is a great example on why the Canadian forces should have strict PT testing.
IF you can't make the standard BEFORE you join then too bad, hit the gym until you can pass then apply.

 

[Mom150]

A very hard lesson learned, that's for sure!  No one wants to spend 6 months at cflrs, unless you can see your reward but when you lose that, it's pretty heartbreaking.  Yeah, I know she shouldn't have been in that predicament in the first place but shit happened.  That's all.  She failed.  It is harsh, it just sucks because she wanted it soo badly and she is awesome!

 

[brihard]

A very hard lesson learned, that's for sure!  No one wants to spend 6 months at cflrs, unless you can see your reward but when you lose that, it's pretty heartbreaking.  Yeah, I know she shouldn't have been in that predicament in the first place but crap happened.  That's all.  She failed.  It is harsh, it just sucks because she wanted it soo badly and she is awesome!

Good attitude. I hope she takes after you, and also that she earns herself another kick at the cat and is sucessful.

 

[Mom150]

You were fortunate that the test happened before enrolling.  It seems that she was the same as you, assumed that she was in good shape.  Unfortunately, for her, she was caught up in not wanting to quit or give up.  She would have done the same thing you did, went away and trained on her own and came back when she could pass.  She's an awesome kid.  You must agree with some of the trap that she got caught up in.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

...You must agree with some of the trap that she got caught up in.

But there is no trap. One knows whether they can do what's required or not before even getting to that stage.  :-\

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

Knowing me Ill likely get stuck in warriors platoon.

 

[AgentSmith]

Knowing me Ill likely get stuck in warriors platoon.

With that kind of attitude, don't go to basic until you know 100% that you can pass the fitness test. Don't join planning to go to Warrior platoon.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Knowing me Ill likely get stuck in warriors platoon.

What did you think the military would be like?  With respect  if your fitness is that horrible maybe you should put your decision to join the military on hold and let someone better prepared and more able take your place.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

2 things need to happen, IMO.

1.  Reinstate the enrollment PT test for Reg Force applicants.

2.  Rename the so-called "Warrior Platoon" to something more realistic while waiting for #1 to happen.

 

[Davidson22]

2 things need to happen, IMO.

1.  Reinstate the enrollment PT test for Reg Force applicants.

2.  Rename the so-called "Warrior Platoon" to something more realistic while waiting for #1 to happen.

I agree that you should be tested before being accepted and sent to basic training. It is a very easy test, I passed it when I had not trained for it at all, though I payed for it later.

When did they change the name to warrior platoon? That doesn't seem fitting and it's kinda cheesy. I am sure it used to be called RFT for recruit fitness training.

To those who think about joining without preparing properly, i did it my first time in. Because of that I got injured and spent over two months on PAT platoon waiting to heal. I had to watch my platoon graduate without me and that really sucked. I ended up putting in my vr to so I could go back when I was truly prepared. Now i am finally going back but everyone I went to bmq with is now a cpl and I'm just starting back where I was 5 years ago. There is nothing I regret more than not preparing myself.

 

[Jarnhamar]

2 things need to happen, IMO.

1.  Reinstate the enrollment PT test for Reg Force applicants.

2.  Rename the so-called "Warrior Platoon" to something more realistic while waiting for #1 to happen.

Theoretical: Give everyone a month to pass the test. Those that don't are released for being unfit for service.
Practical: "injuries" will drastically increase causing members to avoid being released.

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

When I did my processing the medic had me do a few push-ups. Thats about the only real physical task they had me do before St.Jean.

Being prepared in the long run is definitely a good thing, obviously. Ive always been a walker/jogger, but never long distance (usually don't run for anymore than a quarter KM). Now that Im practicing running 2.5+ km Im getting shin splints. Its ironic, I felt I would do well with running (even my mother said ignore the running youre a good runner, focus on push-ups) and struggle with push-ups/sit-ups, but I think I can do the required push-ups/situps without to much problem, but its long distance running that may become an issue.