Notice of CF Express

[SupersonicMax]

There are 3 possible outcome to the test:

1-Fail
2-Pass
3-Exempt

5 push ups won't make a difference if you say you can do 35 for a pass.  If you are going for the exempt it might, but you can always re-do the express test 3 weeks later when you are more rested.

 

[Klinkaroo]

I will agree with you on that point and probably won't make a difference...

Still don't like surprises though...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

???

How long have you been in and what MOC are you?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Still don't like surprises though...

Well, you'll learn with time that surprises come with the job! 

 

[Klinkaroo]

Said I didn't like them, never said they didn't exist

2 years, 00225

 

[gaspasser]

Sorry, my goony-goo-goo old farts trade dictionary does not know that one...trade in normal speak??? 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

MAR ENG SYS OP according to CFPAS

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ok so I read through the entire thing and didn't find anything and that was probably the best document to try and find anything.

I did however see something very interesting for someone who fails the MPFS... it says that they can request an evaluation by CMTFE (Common Military Tasks Fitness Evaluation). Has anyone ever heard of this being done? Not that I need to or want to but never heard of that before and just curious to know. It can be requested after failing the CF Express twice and is the choice of the member...

Taken from the CFPSA website http://www.cfpsa.com/en/psp/fitness/general_e.asp

Klinkaroo,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you are worried about the test.  If not, why would you have read so much about what happens if you fail the EXPRES test?  If you are in an army reserve unit, I believe there is a message out stating as a member of the Army you are required to pass the BFT.  If not, then you are required to pass the EXPRES test for Air Reserve or Naval Reserve.  The DAOD applies to ALL CF members.  If you are sure you will pass, then the post above is one no one needs to answer.

You have, as I see it, the following options:

1.  Do the BFT/EXPRES test, pass and get the Class B callout.

2.  Do the BFT/EXPRES test, fail, dust yourself off and take steps to remedy that situation.  (Being part of the solution)

3.  Go back to the CoC, with a copy of DAOD 5023-2 in hand and point out that your EXPRES test is valid until 1 year of the date it was taken, which you are suggesting your EXPRES test is valid until the end of the Class B you are seeking.  

4.  Do nothing and work somewhere else.

Not knowing the situation, if others are competing for this Class B job and have passed the EXPRES and are qualified you may be SOL getting picked.

I was a Class B Commando for years.  I always did the ruckmarch or the EXPRES test or both.  In 2006 between March and Oct, I did the EXPRES test and the BFT twice each.  I did the EXPRES last Aug and BFT last Oct.  I am no PT god and I have an injury in my back (since 1992).  I didn't worry about it and I didn't have to read the parts of 'what happens if I fail'.  Thats what leads me to believe you ARE worried about it.  Most folks in Army units do ruckmarches on a regular basis, thats why they never worry about a 13 BFT; they do them all the time.

I have listed what I see as your choices here.  You'll have to pick the right one for you.

 

[Klinkaroo]

Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...

Also I ask many questions because this is the only thing that I have ever had a problem with. Never had an exam on a trades course below 80% or have had any other problems ever in the forces... Just the PT test once and I really really don't want it to happen again and if by some bad bad stroke of luck I want to know what my options are because I don't want to lose this job.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Good.  Then based on that...there seems to be no further discussion required. 

You need to only do the EXPRES test, and then start your CL B term. 

 

[geo]

Well... there is the "exempt" level on the shuttle run.  If you get to that level, you don't have to do the Express test the next year..... umm.... Should I say that it's usually the case BUT, not always the case ???

<<helmets on>> started xmass block leave with an express test in my back pocket.  Come back in January to find out that the CLS had "tweaked" the rules a wee bit.....  all of a sudden, LCols in Command positions AND all Cols + CWOs were obliged to complete the express test each and every year - regardless of that Exemption.

<<helmet off>>  I had all of 5 days notification to do my express test.... been there & done that... but I must say that, when the PSP guy was encouraging me to go for the exemption level - I kindly told him what he could do with his "exemption".

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...

Also I ask many questions because this is the only thing that I have ever had a problem with. Never had an exam on a trades course below 80% or have had any other problems ever in the forces... Just the PT test once and I really really don't want it to happen again and if by some bad bad stroke of luck I want to know what my options are because I don't want to lose this job.

Then give it your best.  Its all you can do if they insist you do it.  Good luck! 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well... there is the "exempt" level on the shuttle run.  If you get to that level, you don't have to do the Express test the next year..... umm.... Should I say that it's usually the case BUT, not always the case ???

<<helmets on>> started xmass block leave with an express test in my back pocket.  Come back in January to find out that the CLS had "tweaked" the rules a wee bit.....  all of a sudden, LCols in Command positions AND all Cols + CWOs were obliged to complete the express test each and every year - regardless of that Exemption.

<<helmet off>>  I had all of 5 days notification to do my express test.... been there & done that... but I must say that, when the PSP guy was encouraging me to go for the exemption level - I kindly told him what he could do with his "exemption".

At that point the holidays were over so you didn't feel the need to be jolly and festive anymore? 

FWIW Geo...I don't agree with why Col's and CWOs do it as a person...as a former green guy, I like the idea that COs and RSMs "lead from the front"...who in The Regiment can say a word when the CO and RSM are doing it?  ;D  I bet no one slipped thru after *that* decision by the CLS.

 

[Armymedic]

As a member of the CF you should always be fit enough to pass the EXPRES test at any time. It is the minimum standard after all.

That is the answer for all inquiries as to how much notice etc you require for fitness (Expres) testing.

 

[Armymedic]

Actually I was asking about the "if you fail twice thing" out of curiosity, because I know of people who had failed twice and we're never offered the option...

Its outlined in the DOAD I do believe.

 

[Fusaki]

As a member of the CF you should always be fit enough to pass the EXPRES test at any time. It is the minimum standard after all.

And on that note, I put forward the motion that all members are randomly administered the CF express test.

The rifle platoons are randomly checked in 3 ranks for dress and deportment. Units are bugged out at random times to check readiness. Random express tests seem like an excellent way to ensure that everyone maintains a minimum fitness standard. Have real consequences for failure - fill the duty list over Christmas leave. If you're failing the express test you should be skipping that ham and turkey anyways.

I have other ideas too. >

 

[SupersonicMax]

Wonderbread, what if you just came back from a 1 hour work out?  Even though on a normal day you would pass, there are certain circumstances that could dictate otherwise.  (Work Out prior, a cold, etc). 

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Have real consequences for failure - fill the duty list over Christmas leave.

No, I think remedial PT over Christmas leave would be much more appropriate.

To the original poster, I don't think you're getting much sympathy here. You really have no leg to stand on in regards to how much warning they ''should'' give you, particularly in regards to minimum fitness levels.

Supersonic - good point, however I think any normal CofC would realise this, and also, is there not a form you fill out at the beginning stating you understand the requirements etc, and maybe this would be the time you would put your hand up and say 'Errm can I do it this afternoon? I've just done a 10miler.'

 

[George Wallace]

No Can Do.  I'd fail it after my second Lg Double Double after PT.  Need the 24 hr NTM to lay off the caffeine.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

From DAOD 5023-2:

This DAOD is an order that applies to officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces ("CF members").
Administrative Requirements and Procedures

Period of Validity of the Results of a Physical Fitness Evaluation The results of a physical fitness evaluation are valid:

- for a period of 365 days beginning on the date on which a pass rating is achieved; or
- for a period of 730 days beginning on the date on which an incentive standard is achieved under the CF EXPRES incentive program (see the CF EXPRES Incentive Program Exemption block).

The date on which a pass rating or incentive standard is achieved is set out in:

- the appropriate evaluation report form, e.g. Form DND 279, CF EXPRES Program; and
- the fitness panel in the HRMS.

When Required A CF member who is not exempted from physical fitness evaluation requires valid evaluation results:- on the effective date of a promotion, in accordance with promotion policy in applicable CFAOs; and
- on the start date of a period of Class "B" or "C" Reserve Service.

Just before I duck out of this thread...from a purely CF Policy perspective, and based on the info the OP giving as being true, he isn't required to re-do the EXPRES test before or during the Class B callout.  This is based on the bolded parts of the DAOD and his statement

I have one valid until the end of my contract

I've had similar discussions with some folks my rank and slightly higher in my unit, and they think that Fitness Tests are based on fiscal years, and they are not.  If I do an EXPRES test on 29 Mar 07, it doesn't 'expire' at the start of the new FY, a few days later.  Lastly?  I agree, anyone and everyone should be ready to do the EXPRES/BFT test *within 24 hours of being told*.  Why do I say 24 hours?  How many people would pull the "but I don't have gym clothes here...".  That leads to my last comments.

Physical fitness is a condition of service (or so says the CDS in the CANFORGENs). 

From DAOD 5023-2:

Participation

CF members of the Regular Force and Primary Reserve SHALL participate in regular physical fitness training. COs are responsible to ensure that CF members are provided opportunities to conduct physical fitness activities during normal working hours when circumstances permit. When this is not feasible, CF members should conduct physical fitness activities outside normal working hours. As general guidance, physical fitness activities should be conducted in 60-minute sessions, a minimum of five times per week.

With the word SHALL being in the DAOD...if you don't do PT, are not on MELs or excused PT from the CDU...are you not disobeying a lawful command?  If that is disobeying a lawful command, are you and your immediate superior(s) both responsible (as every good leader is responsible for his/her troops)?  So doesn't the poor PT performance in some people go on their shoulders AND whoever was responsible to supervise them?

Maybe thats a whole new thread.