Old wounds slow to heal on Plains of Abraham - CBC News

[Kirkhill]

With respect to the books I was merely noting that it is difficult to get a single story to tell that would pass muster in both Quebec and the rest of Canada.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Now if you, Bruce, were suggesting that the money were to be spent on history books in the plural and the general then I would agree with you.

 

[ex-Sup]

I wonder how many Canadian history books this same amount of money could buy us?

Meh, books are overrated. Probably you're going to see less and less in classrooms in the future. They are getting ridiculously over priced and eventually schools will not be able to afford them. Case in point, the text we use in our school, Making History, costs $78 and rising:
http://www.pearsoned.ca/school/history/start.html
Besides, IMHO, teaching from a book makes for bad pedagogy. That's just my opinion, but after 11 years in the profession, I think I've earned it.
Anywho, apologies for the hijack 

editted b/c the stupid teacher can't spell!

 

[ltmaverick25]

The Quebec school system is a HUGE problem all on its own.  I was bred through the Quebec school system when I was younger.  The only Canadian history that is mentioned is the type that galvanizes Quebec against Canada.  The spirit is very much, lets teach our kids how badly Canada has treated us.  That is the singleminded slant that is in the Quebec school system.  Its been this way now for a good 30 years, its no wonder that we continue to have these stupid problems.

And to Bruce, you are way off base.  The day the telling the truth becomes offensive is the day that our society has lost everything that it once stood on.  To avoid any part of our history because it is offensive to some is ignorant to say the least.

Nobody here is talking about rubbing peoples nose in anything and certainly that was not the intent of the people organizing this battle.

Are you also of the school of thought that says we cant say merry xmas anymore because it could be offensive?  We need to say happy holidays instead?

For the sake of argument, what if saying happy holidays was offensive to me, a white, english speaking male.  Would anyone care?  Probably not.

 

[slayer]

The showdown between French and English armies


I can't stand when they use the term "English", its "British", the Scottish highlanders played a big role in the victory.

 

[Kat Stevens]

But British doesn't make them identifiable by language, therefore not as inflammatory.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

For the sake of argument, what if saying happy holidays was offensive to me, a white, english speaking male.  Would anyone care?  Probably not.

Cry me a friggin' river.....

And to Bruce, you are way off base.  The day the telling the truth becomes offensive is the day that our society has lost everything that it once stood on.  To avoid any part of our history because it is offensive to some is ignorant to say the least.

Nobody here is talking about rubbing peoples nose in anything and certainly that was not the intent of the people organizing this battle.

Bullshit.
  Do you tell your wife she's getting fatter and uglier every year?  I thought not, some truths should just be left as truth.....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

But British doesn't make them identifiable by language, therefore not as inflammatory.

Now there is something we can agree on.........

 

[slayer]

British is very identiful.  Im tired of seeing Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, being left out.

 

[the 48th regulator]

British is very identiful.  Im tired of seeing Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, being left out.

Here we go.

Britain was a Roman name for their territory.  It did not include Ireland and most of Scotland.  Is that what you mean?

dilleas

tess

 

[slayer]

No Brittania was, and Britain is the whole island

 

[je suis prest]

I believe the point was simply that to describe Wolfe's army as "English" was incorrect, as the army was that of the United Kingdom of England and Scotland.  It also contained Irish, American and, in the Royal American Regiment, German, soldiers.  Describing the army by the ethnic term "English" is simply incorrect.

As to whether re-enactments are a waste of time, as a member of a historic society, the 78th Fraser Highlanders, which, although not re-enactors, does have members who wear historic costumes, I'll simply say that there are a lot of ways to convey an understanding of history.  Books are one way, movies (such as Passchendaele) are another. Providing a visual remembrance of times past through re-enactment is yet another, and, from the reactions I've seen, an effective one for those who take the time to watch and learn.

The cancellation of the encampment is a sad, if somewhat predictable outcome.  Unfortunately the separatists who made this their cause celebre are among those who will never have the chance to meet and speak to those who were going to represent their own ancestors, the Canadiens who fought so bravely and effectively at Quebec.. C'est dommage.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Cry me a friggin' river.....


Bullshit.
  Do you tell your wife she's getting fatter and uglier every year?  I thought not, some truths should just be left as truth.....

Your ability to form an intelligent argument leaves little to be desired...

As for your cry me a river comment, I can say the same thing about the SEPERATISTS being offended.  But that isnt the way I form my arguments...  The truth is, this battle, for better or for worse was a monumental event in Canadian history and it should not be forgotten.  It played an instrumental role in the creation of our country.  Should we also forget about the Second World War for fear of offending German immigrants?  While were on the topic what other part of our history should be left out?  Should future Canadians conveniently chose to forget Afghanistan many years later because it may offend someone?

Try putting a little more thought into it, and if you have, maybe try expressing it instead of the diatrite above.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Good points don't need to be drawn out......

We have lots of monumental battles in Canadian history, and instead of putting on kids costumes and playing pretend hero, we stand side by side with all who fought once a year and REMEMBER that way............and I, for one, have grown to cherish that day.

Those who need to measure their historical dicks may disagree, but.......

 

[ltmaverick25]

Good points don't need to be drawn out......

We have lots of monumental battles in Canadian history, and instead of putting on kids costumes and playing pretend hero, we stand side by side with all who fought once a year and REMEMBER that way............and I, for one, have grown to cherish that day.

Those who need to measure their historical dicks may disagree, but.......

As for rememberance day, fair enough, im right there with you.

But why must this re-enactment be considered a measuring of historical dicks?  What is it that the organizers of this event did to leave you with that impression?

Also consider something else.  While I agree whole heartedly with your statement about rememberance day, there are others, who happen to enjoy making history a larger part of their lives.  Some are history buffs, some, just want to know more, others like me may fall back on it as a career if the CF ever tells me to get lost.  It isnt about measuring dicks, its about understanding our country and knowing where we come from.

The battle is not simply we beat you, neaner neaner neaner.  I am a french Canadian, born in Quebec.  I happen to speak english way more often then french and have been that way for a while now, but my lineage is still very much french, and I just dont find myself being offended by this battle.

If people take the time to understand, or even give a crap, the battle is so much more then who won or who lost.  Hell, many argue that the outcome of that battle never really mattered anyway.  Had the french won in Quebec, but the rest of the war had gone the same, its a good possibility that Canada would still have been given to Britain at the bargaining table.  Lets not forget that this war, is considered the actual first world war by many because it was truly global.  But anyway I digress...

For Canada, the battle represents way more then victory and defeat.  It represents a begining of a nation between two peoples that were bitter rivals and enemies, that had killed each other on more then one occasion.  And yet look at us now.  We have english and french, protestant and catholic co-existing peacefully.  We have those same two peoples who were diabilically opposed to each other come together despite what were obviously huge differences and forge a nation together.

Im sorry, but thats not offensive to me, I consider this one of the greatest aspects of our history and something that both english and french Canadians could benefit from understanding.  Because of the seperatists crying thats not going to happen now.  Instead we have bloggers all over news sites at each others necks and calling each other babies or braggers.  Something that could have been a nation building event was ruined by a minority few that want to do the opposite of nation building in Canada, and THAT to me, is extremely offensive.

 

[George Wallace]

The Quebec school system is a HUGE problem all on its own.  I was bred through the Quebec school system when I was younger.  The only Canadian history that is mentioned is the type that galvanizes Quebec against Canada.  The spirit is very much, lets teach our kids how badly Canada has treated us.  That is the singleminded slant that is in the Quebec school system.  Its been this way now for a good 30 years, its no wonder that we continue to have these stupid problems.

This has been documented on W5 or one of the other such programs back in the 1980's.

.............  The day the telling the truth becomes offensive is the day that our society has lost everything that it once stood on.  To avoid any part of our history because it is offensive to some is ignorant to say the least.

Now this I find interesting.  Perhaps you can explain to me how Louis Riel has evolved into a national hero, with statues of him and schools named after him.

 

[ltmaverick25]

Dont even get me started on Louis Riel.  I could write volumes about how we managed to mistakenly raise him as a hero.  To be very breif, and overly simplistic, Louis Riel is the result of the intellectual revolution occuring in academic historical circles and its complete BS imo.  This revolution is attempting to reject and eliminate the "great" british white male from historical narrative and replace it with aboriginal, female, ethnic heroes.  They are trying to give voice to those whose voices have not been adequately covered by more conventional forms of history, which is a noble cause and something that needed doing.  But they are taking things WAY too far and Louis Riel is but just one result of this.  The other result even more alarming is the attempt to eliminate Canadian military history as a legitimate field of study for academic historians, and it is unfortunately working.