Ombudsman's Report on BOI's

[JAFMA]

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=dc3769c3-b360-4ff9-98a1-0fc15616ad21

I always thought that compensation was a given when a mbr died on active service IE. pensions, SDB, SISIP and all that good gear.  What other comp could she be getting?

 

[pbi]

IMHO we should remember that this incident happened well over a decade ago. While I agree fully that in those days the Army did many stupid and callous things and often had no idea how to treat families decently, that is not the case now, nor has it been for a few years. I have been involved in a few of these cases in the last ten years and I believe that in the great majority of cases we do everything we can for the families: there are still exceptions but IMHO they are just that: exceptions.

As usual, IMHO Mr Marin fires a broadside that goes wide of the factual mark but still does damage. I would like to see his evidence that we are still "bungling" these investigations or failing to treat families properly, as opposed to what we were doing (or failing to do...) years ago.

As for training "investigators" he is again raising a red herring. We do not need to send officers on "investigator courses". The members of a board of inquiry do not replace technical investigators such as MPs, NIS, flight safety, engineers, etc. They follow the Terms of Reference they are issued, applying common sense and previous experience to the work. Technical investigations are done separately, and technical and legal advisors are available to the BofI. If the board applies the principles of effective staff work they will produce a good BoFI.

Cheers.

 

[JAFMA]

I take what you say is true.  Then why is Mr Marin blowing his horn and saying we aren't dotting all our i's and crossing or T's.  If not mistaken he is a lawyer and should do his homework or at least someone in his office should, shouldn't they.  But then again we are talking about civies aren't we?  So is there anything we can do better in order that this kind of press doesn't  happen again.

 

[pbi]

Mr Marin's own successful future rests to a great degree on how much attention he attracts to himself. Being a lawyer does not give him a stranglehold on accuracy or fairness. As to avoiding such comments from him(or others of his ilk)  in future: well, I suggest that we are already in the "future" as far as the Wheeler incident is concerned. As long as we keep doing what I described in my post, we should be fine. Believe me, we have come a very long way in how we deal with Army families: I have lived through the change.

Cheers

 

[Armymedic]

As for training "investigators" he is again raising a red herring. We do not need to send officers on "investigator courses". The members of a board of inquiry do not replace technical investigators such as MPs, NIS, flight safety, engineers, etc. They follow the Terms of Reference they are issued, applying common sense and previous experience to the work. Technical investigations are done separately, and technical and legal advisors are available to the BofI. If the board applies the principles of effective staff work they will produce a good BoFI.

I agree. The only thing that needs to be done is to tighten those terms of reference. Also due to the fact the CF has so few duty related deaths, that periodic refresher training and/or clearly defined terms should be in place to ensure even the most rookie MP knows what is expected of him at the scene of death.

I know on my side of the house, that post death care is a MO area. With the exception on my ql 3 I have not done any training for care after, or preparation of a body for transportation to "disposal".

 

[pbi]

I know on my side of the house, that post death care is a MO area. With the exception on my ql 3 I have not done any training for care after, or preparation of a body for transportation to "disposal".

As a ghoulish aside, the US forces here have a section known as "Mortuary Affairs" (I think it is actually a Medical MOC...) that handles remains after the field unit has turned them over. They embalm and prepare the body, then ship it to the US Air base at Dover, Delaware, which receives remains coming from this part of the world.I wonder why you would join the Army to do that?

On a more general note, I think that we do not deal well with the subject of   the correct handling of fatalities during our training (particularly our exercises). IMHO we need to, because improper or sloppy handling of the dead (or leaving the dead behind to be mutilated or stripped by the enemy...) is a serious morale issue. The US forces here emphasize by means of wall posters, wallet cards, TV ads, etc that they will never abandon their dead. We sometimes train to handle the wounded on exercise, but what about the dead?

Cheers.

 

[S McKee]

Mr Marin's own successful future rests to a great degree on how much attention he attracts to himself. Being a lawyer does not give him a stranglehold on accuracy or fairness. As to avoiding such comments from him(or others of his ilk)   in future: well, I suggest that we are already in the "future" as far as the Wheeler incident is concerned. As long as we keep doing what I described in my post, we should be fine. Believe me, we have come a very long way in how we deal with Army families: I have lived through the change.

Cheers

Totally agree with all of your comments, things have changed since 92. While I don't have a problem with the Ombudsman's office, Mr Marin always has been a bit of a showboat.