Ontario Government (Conservative majority), 2025-29

[lenaitch]

Ontario Learn and Stay Grant

Apply for funding to pay for your tuition and books when you study in nursing, paramedicine, medical laboratory technology/science or family medicine.

www.ontario.ca

North region
Thunder Bay (25)
Sudbury (24)
North Bay-Parry Sound (14)
Northwestern (16)
Northeastern (15)
Algoma (1)

East region
Eastern Ontario (5)
Ottawa (17)
Renfrew County (20)
South East (22)

Southwest region
Huron Perth/Oxford Elgin St. Thomas (10)
Southwestern (23)
Lambton (11)
Middlesex-London (12)
Chatham-Kent (2)
Windsor-Essex County (28)
Grey-Bruce (7)
Grand Erie (6)

Ontario Learn and Stay Grant

Apply for funding to pay for your tuition and books when you study in nursing, paramedicine, medical laboratory technology/science or family medicine.

www.ontario.ca

Yes - I heard of that. Too bad it came a little late for our daughter. She went to university in the north and stayed, so she (we) could have saved some coin in tuition.

I think the Northern Ontario School of Medicine (Sudbury/TBay) has something similar.

When you said "staff", I thought you were referring to Ontario civil servants. The OPP now has quite generous posting allowances for the north, amounts vary by location. When I was working, the 'duration posting allowance' might have bought a case of beer after taxes.

 

[mariomike]

Yes - I heard of that. Too bad it came a little late for our daughter. She went to university in the north and stayed, so she (we) could have saved some coin in tuition.

Regarding the Ontario Learn and Stay program.

The Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs (OAPC) said the province still relies on a two-year college diploma that tries to compress three years of education. Many colleges are now pushing to replace the two-year diploma proram with a three-year undergraduate degree.

More than half fail.

Right now, they only get so many college seats per year. And when more than half the students fail, that cuts our graduates in half. They’re saying, ‘Give us an extra year, and we can get graduation rates close to 100 per cent by giving students the time and support they need.’”

With more than half failing the two-year diploma program, that cuts the graduates by more than half.

OAPC wants it to be a three-year program.

I think its also a good idea to educate students on what they are getting into - before they get fed into the 9-1-1 system.

Is Queen's Park ready to ante up for three years tuition. Or, go cheap with two?

 

[HavokFour]

The knives are coming out in the OLP for Nate Erskine-Smith. Saturday's nomination vote will be interesting.

SCOOP: Hafiz and Jackson team up to box out Erskine-Smith

They’re calling it “Scarborough First.” Plus: Here’s how many card-carrying Liberals will be eligible to vote in the nomination contest.

www.policorner.ca

 

[lenaitch]

Regarding the Ontario Learn and Stay program.

The Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs (OAPC) said the province still relies on a two-year college diploma that tries to compress three years of education. Many colleges are now pushing to replace the two-year diploma proram with a three-year undergraduate degree.

More than half fail.



With more than half failing the two-year diploma program, that cuts the graduates by more than half.

OAPC wants it to be a three-year program.

I think its also a good idea to educate students on what they are getting into - before they get fed into the 9-1-1 system.

Is Queen's Park ready to ante up for three years tuition. Or, go cheap with two?

There's a difference between a 3-year diploma course and an undergrad program. What would two more semesters do to improve the graduation rate? Less intencity?

 

[mariomike]

There's a difference between a 3-year diploma course and an undergrad program. What would two more semesters do to improve the graduation rate? Less intencity?

Not sure exactly why the fail rate is 60 per cent.

I read it in this article in the Sault Star.

Calls grow for reform of Ontario’s paramedic regulations

The Northern Ontario Service Deliverers Association (NOSDA) conference held in the Sault on Wednesday is themed “Human Services: Made in the North.”

www.saultstar.com

Sage said the province still relies on a two-year college diploma that tries to compress three years of material. The fail rate is 60 per cent.

Greg Sage, president of the Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs

I know Greg from when he worked in Toronto.

 

[Kilted]

Not sure exactly why the fail rate is 60 per cent.

I read it in this article in the Sault Star.

Calls grow for reform of Ontario’s paramedic regulations

The Northern Ontario Service Deliverers Association (NOSDA) conference held in the Sault on Wednesday is themed “Human Services: Made in the North.”

www.saultstar.com

Greg Sage, president of the Ontario Association of Paramedic Chiefs

I know Greg from when he worked in Toronto.

They can still work privately, they just can't call themselves paramedics. There are companies who employee them along with EMRs.

 

[mariomike]

They can still work privately, they just can't call themselves paramedics.

The Chiefs put it this way,

There are no paramedics that work in mines or no paramedics that work in the Ring of Fire, or in in heavy industry, Because to work as a paramedic in Ontario, you have to be working for a paramedic service in a 911 capacity.

 

[lenaitch]

The Chiefs put it this way,

To be fair, the only people working in the Ring of Fire right now are a bunch of drilling crews living in tents or trailers.

I'm still unclear how making it a degree program would make anything better. Adding the elements/subjects that would be mandated by the various governing bodies would likely add to the load. It might well go the way of law enforcement diploma and degree programs. Ever since the programs have been taken over by academics instead of staff familiar with the industry they are supposed to be feeding, police services have become les and less impressed with the product.

I was surprised to learn that Emergency Medical Responders still exist in some areas of northern Ontario (basic CPR/FA + AED). Usually part of the local VFD - which themselves can be pretty small - but not always. A lot of unorganized townships lack even those.

 

[YZT580]

To be fair, the only people working in the Ring of Fire right now are a bunch of drilling crews living in tents or trailers.

I'm still unclear how making it a degree program would make anything better. Adding the elements/subjects that would be mandated by the various governing bodies would likely add to the load. It might well go the way of law enforcement diploma and degree programs. Ever since the programs have been taken over by academics instead of staff familiar with the industry they are supposed to be feeding, police services have become les and less impressed with the product.

I was surprised to learn that Emergency Medical Responders still exist in some areas of northern Ontario (basic CPR/FA + AED). Usually part of the local VFD - which themselves can be pretty small - but not always. A lot of unorganized townships lack even those.

slight side-track but perhaps germane to the discussion. The certification exam taken by an RPN is for all intents a duplicate of the one taken by an RN in Ontario. Perhaps going to a 3 year programme is another way of trying to justify universities instead of colleges without gaining any real advantage. The same process has been followed for teachers too.

 

[mariomike]

I'm still unclear how making it a degree program would make anything better.

I don't know either.

Yet, here we are,

U of T

Students in Paramedicine earn an Honours Bachelor of Science degree

Students in Paramedicine earn an Honours Bachelor of Science degree and an Ontario College Diploma while learning from leading academics and professionals. This program, unique in Canada, prepares students for the Ontario Ministry of Health Advanced Emergency Medical Care Attendant (AEMCA) exam.

Paramedicine | Admissions & Student Recruitment

www.utsc.utoronto.ca

At least you can graduate from the above, and put it behind you.

But, for the rest of your career on 9-1-1 Operations, you'll be at the mercy of the two below

1) The Department's own Eduction staff,

Home | TPS Education Portal

Welcome to the Toronto Paramedic Services Education Portal. This site provides online resources and educational programs to the staff and students of Toronto Paramedic Services. In order to access this site you require a site login that has been setup by a program coordinator. Click the link in...

www.temseducation.com

2) The Medical Director at the Centre of Prehospital Medicine. Aka "Dr. G#d".

About the Regional Base Hospital

The Sunnybrook Centre for Prehospital Medicine currently delegates to approximately 3,300 paramedics serving Beausoleil, Halton, Muskoka, Peel, Rama, Simcoe and Toronto regions. The delegation of controlled medical acts to paramedics is through Medical Directors Dr. Sheldon Cheskes for Peel and […]

www.prehospitalmedicine.ca

I was fortunately "grandfathered" by the time Recruiting became a whole new ball game on 1 August, 1975.

That's when college became mandatory to apply. All I had was high school. The dept. eventually sent us to college.

It was voluntary. I think it was basically a "no-fail". Because, even if you did, they couldn't fire you.

We loved college. It was fun. And best of all , it got us off Operations. At least for a while.

We got scolded by one of our classmates ( a Deputy Chief ) about setting a bad example drinking at lunchtime.

When we wrote our finals, a pencil went flying across the room as he exclaimed, What do they think we are?! A bunch of f#$cking doctors!" LOL

From what I have heard from the Chiefs at our pensioner luncheons, where they keep us up to date on what's new, is that colleges don't prepare candidates for the call volume.

I know that was my biggest shock when I hired on.

 

[lenaitch]

slight side-track but perhaps germane to the discussion. The certification exam taken by an RPN is for all intents a duplicate of the one taken by an RN in Ontario. Perhaps going to a 3 year programme is another way of trying to justify universities instead of colleges without gaining any real advantage. The same process has been followed for teachers too.

But I assume they have different scopes of practice.

In Ontario, a teaching certificate (BEd) used to be one year after undergrad, then it went to two (four semesters). Now they are proposing something in the middle; three semesters in 12 months.

 

[YZT580]

But I assume they have different scopes of practice.

In Ontario, a teaching certificate (BEd) used to be one year after undergrad, then it went to two (four semesters). Now they are proposing something in the middle; three semesters in 12 months.

In Ontario you could actually graduate from grade 12 and enter a two year programme to get your teaching certificate. The one year programme was for grade 13 grads. The department of Education ran their own teacher's colleges scattered throughout the province and provided a standardized curriculum. A graduate of a school in Sudbury could go to college in the north and get a job there upon graduation. It was in the late 60's that the province got out of the training programme and control passed to the universities

 

[mariomike]

They can still work privately, they just can't call themselves paramedics.

Right.

Paramedics in Ontario are employed by municipal paramedic services in a 9-1-1 capacity.

Private companies, such as event medical teams, have had to change how they identify their staff. Some have adopted terms like "paramedicine practitioners" or changed "paramedic" to "medic" while on-duty, as the title is tied directly to the municipal service, not the individual's certification alone.

That's Ontario only. YMMV elsewhere.

 

[Kilted]

Right.

Paramedics in Ontario are employed by municipal paramedic services in a 9-1-1 capacity.

Private companies, such as event medical teams, have had to change how they identify their staff. Some have adopted terms like "paramedicine practitioners" or changed "paramedic" to "medic" while on-duty, as the title is tied directly to the municipal service, not the individual's certification alone.

That's Ontario only. YMMV elsewhere.

And to add confusion to it, some of those companies will employ EMRs and even Standard First Aiders in some cases.

 

[mariomike]

And to add confusion to it, some of those companies will employ EMRs and even Standard First Aiders in some cases.

FIFA World Cup 2026™ (FWC26) is coming to town.

FIFA has insisted on City paramedics inside Toronto Stadium (BMO Field) - versus private medical companies - to be deployed on the six match days and on four other FIFA World Cup 2026 event days.

That will require an "integrated regional paramedic response model” for those.ten days requiring paramedics from Peel, York and Durham regions to be deployed to respond to “all emergency call priorities within two kilometres of Toronto’s municipal boundaries” as well as elsewhere within the City of Toronto, as required.

This FIFA request for paramedics in the stadium isn’t conventionally done at games involving major league teams like the Toronto Blue Jays. The team uses a private medical company to provide initial first aid and - personnel will then call paramedics if someone needs to go to a hospital.

 

[lenaitch]

In Ontario you could actually graduate from grade 12 and enter a two year programme to get your teaching certificate. The one year programme was for grade 13 grads. The department of Education ran their own teacher's colleges scattered throughout the province and provided a standardized curriculum. A graduate of a school in Sudbury could go to college in the north and get a job there upon graduation. It was in the late 60's that the province got out of the training programme and control passed to the universities

It was even better if you were a 'shop teacher'. They all came from industry and did a summer course (or maybe two) on 'how to be a teacher'. The professional academics put an end to that. How many high schools have shops now?

It's like when I took 'law enforcement' at community college. All of our profs were retired coppers. Professional academics have pretty much put an end to that. Some colleges still have some ex-coppers as part-time faculty.

 

[lenaitch]

Paramedics in Ontario are employed by municipal paramedic services in a 9-1-1 capacity.

Plus Ornge.

This FIFA request for paramedics in the stadium isn’t conventionally done at games involving major league teams like the Toronto Blue Jays. The team uses a private medical company to provide initial first aid and - personnel will then call paramedics if someone needs to go to a hospital.

Part of the issue is that the vast majority of players are not Ontario or even Canadian residents. Other than emergency care, they have their own private health care providers.

I'm a bit surprised the union has jumped on this like the TPA has. It would be a pretty lucrative paid-duty income stream.

 

[YZT580]

IProfessional academics have pretty much put an end to that. Some colleges still have some ex-coppers as part-time faculty.

to summarize the whole problem: "expert" I think they are deathly afraid that we will discover that there is really nothing special about them. It is the people ones that you remember and they are never the ones carrying the signs

 

[mariomike]

Plus Ornge.

Part of the issue is that the vast majority of players are not Ontario or even Canadian residents. Other than emergency care, they have their own private health care providers.

I'm a bit surprised the union has jumped on this like the TPA has. It would be a pretty lucrative paid-duty income stream.

Forgot about ORNGE.

Sunshine List shows one of their paramedics made $251,851.72 last year.

Didn't see any of their pilots on it.

As far as FIFA goes, Toronto Paramedic Services, has been allocated $7.9 million to manage the increased demand during the FIFA World Cup.

Peel, York and Durham Region's also get a taste of $800,000 for "integrated regional response."

The OPP now has quite generous posting allowances for the north, amounts vary by location. When I was working, the 'duration posting allowance' might have bought a case of beer after taxes.

My friend's father joined the OPP. I don't know for a fact that he was never transferred. But, my friend and his mother never moved. Frequently saw a Black and White parked in the driveway. Which I thought was pretty cool, because the police cars I had seen were yellow.

When I applied for my job, I asked him to write me a letter of reference. Which he did. He had known me since I was three.

Not long after I got hired, I was in Humber Memorial ER hanging around, when he was walked in by a couple of big OPP men. They were in plainclothes. Apparently, an anti-gambing raid had turned violent. Of course, I tried to get him on our stretcher. But, he insisted on walking in.

He was a good man. I hated seeing him injured for doing his job.

 

[HavokFour]

The knives are coming out in the OLP for Nate Erskine-Smith. Saturday's nomination vote will be interesting.

SCOOP: Hafiz and Jackson team up to box out Erskine-Smith

They’re calling it “Scarborough First.” Plus: Here’s how many card-carrying Liberals will be eligible to vote in the nomination contest.

www.policorner.ca

And successful. Ouch.

Ahsanul Hafiz wins Scarborough Southwest Ontario Liberal nomination, beats Nate Erskine-Smith​