Ontario Majority Government 2022-2026 (?)

[Fishbone Jones]

No one is debating Wynne and McGuinty weren’t bad here. Attempting to excuse Ford’s actions by pointing at other corrupt politicians isn’t a good look.

8.3 billion dollars. This is the largest corruption scandal I have ever seen in Canada since I was alive. Please indicate any other scandal with the same amount going directly to privileged friends in Canada, I am curious if anyone knows of such a large case.

WE, SNC Lavalin, or any other number of trudeau scandals. And there are lots. Or how about Butts, McGuinty and Wynne with their Ontario Green Plan. Remind me again what those two cancelled gas plants cost Ontario and the continuation of their Ontario Hydro headache. Greenfield. Wynne $6,000 per Cashmfor Access. Paying off unions under the table, during negotiations. That should get you started.

Just because you give zero benefit of the doubt to Ford, doesn't mean it's the worse scandal in your history. Nor does jumping to, yet to be proven, conclusions of his motives.

Anyway, keep railing. I'll take this up again when there is real proof against Ford.

 

[Eaglelord17]

WE, SNC Lavalin, or any other number of trudeau scandals. And there are lots. Or how about Butts, McGuinty and Wynne with their Ontario Green Plan. Remind me again what those two cancelled gas plants cost Ontario and the continuation of their Ontario Hydro headache. Greenfield. Wynne $6,000 per Cashmfor Access. Paying off unions under the table, during negotiations. That should get you started.

Just because you give zero benefit of the doubt to Ford, doesn't mean it's the worse scandal in your history. Nor does jumping to, yet to be proven, conclusions of his motives.

Anyway, keep railing. I'll take this up again when there is real proof against Ford.

None of those individually equals 8.3 billion though. Seems like the Liberals prefer a bunch of smaller scandals/corruption well Ford’s strategy is go big or go home.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I love how folks try and make it look like we lost 8 billion dollars.....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

None of those individually equals 8.3 billion though. Seems like the Liberals prefer a bunch of smaller scandals/corruption well Ford’s strategy is go big or go home.

As Bruce pointed out, that $8.3 isn't tax money. All the examples I used were tax money. Tax money that was stolen from Ontarians by federal and provincial liberals.

All of that aside, there is no proof at this point, that Ford erred, lied, showed favouritism or broke the law. That drum beats hollow right now. Let's wait for the official investigation.

 

[IKnowNothing]

All of that aside, there is no proof at this point, that Ford erred, lied, showed favouritism or broke the law. That drum beats hollow right now. Let's wait for the official investigation.

Have you read the AG report?
Like is this statement built on the premise that the wrongdoing in the process rests purely on Damato's shoulders, and there is no proof that Ford was involved, are are you completely rejecting the idea that anything wrong happened?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Have you read the AG report?
Like is this statement built on the premise that the wrongdoing in the process rests purely on Damato's shoulders, and there is no proof that Ford was involved, are are you completely rejecting the idea that anything wrong happened?

I'm not rejecting anything. I'm waiting for truth, not emotion or partisan politics.

 

[Eaglelord17]

As Bruce pointed out, that $8.3 isn't tax money. All the examples I used were tax money. Tax money that was stolen from Ontarians by federal and provincial liberals.

All of that aside, there is no proof at this point, that Ford erred, lied, showed favouritism or broke the law. That drum beats hollow right now. Let's wait for the official investigation.

Those scandals weren’t proven in a court yet your so insistent on using them as a example yet giving the benefit of the doubt to Ford, a bit biased much?

Keep in mind I hate those scandals as well, I also hate this one too. Corruption is corruption and it needs to be rooted out.

It might not be tax dollars but it is still corruption. Actively changing the laws to benefit you and your cronies isn’t a appropriate usage of their position of authority. If he did nothing wrong why won’t he follow the 15th recommendation and change the status back and do a new evaluation on which land to remove from the green belt?

 

[IKnowNothing]

I'm not rejecting anything. I'm waiting for truth, not emotion or partisan politics.

So what were your thoughts on the AG's report? Did the process for land selection happen in an acceptable manner?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Corruption is corruption and it needs to be rooted out.

I'm in full agreement. I'm just waiting for it to be done legally and properly. Not by partisan internet allegations. Or is the presumption of innocence something we don't bother with anymore?

 

[Underway]

Fords the boss. As such when a process that is obviously influence peddled, corrupt and smells bad he gets to wear it. There is no presumption of innocence in a leadership role. Happened under your watch you wear it. And lets be honest. All the developers are donors to his party and have unfettered access to his office, and have for years. Criminaly... well we'll see what the RCMP says. But politically, yah he's guilty as hell.

He set up the process, and approved it. So if its not intentionally corrupt its incompetence on a grand scale.

Now he gets to decide how much political flak he's willing to take. Ford has demonstrated a bit of a populist streak and has completely about faced a number of times. All these greenbelt ridings are where he gets a lot of his support from. If there is pushback he's going to turn tail and reverse course. A lot of people left the city because they like the nice, quiet and green. They fled the suburban wasteland for a reason.

Today its already started. Ontario has backtracked on greenbelt building in Caledon due to local oposition.

 

[suffolkowner]

Corruption is corruption and it needs to be rooted out.

I'm in full agreement. I'm just waiting for it to be done legally and properly. Not by partisan internet allegations. Or is the presumption of innocence something we don't bother with anymore?

Presumption of innocence means the crown has to prove you are guilty not that you have to prove you are innocent. Not sure what its application would be here

WE, SNC Lavalin, or any other number of trudeau scandals. And there are lots. Or how about Butts, McGuinty and Wynne with their Ontario Green Plan. Remind me again what those two cancelled gas plants cost Ontario and the continuation of their Ontario Hydro headache. Greenfield. Wynne $6,000 per Cashmfor Access. Paying off unions under the table, during negotiations. That should get you started.

Just because you give zero benefit of the doubt to Ford, doesn't mean it's the worse scandal in your history. Nor does jumping to, yet to be proven, conclusions of his motives.

Anyway, keep railing. I'll take this up again when there is real proof against Ford.

Are they comparable?

WE brothers charity scandal- sweethart deal to family friends for questionable public value while Trudeau family and others get paid for participation

SNC-Lavelin- directing AG to lessen possible punitive measures against large corporation with ties to Liberals

Ontario Green Plan- I dont know anything about this one

Gas plant cancellation- was purely a political/policy meeting where the Liberals changed their mind and bowed to public pressure/bought the public off. Unless you are referring to the attempt to hide all the emails?

Ontario hydro- the Wynne government sold Hydro off for a budget infusion. Bad decision in my books, but is there a claim or evidence of stock manipulation?

Greenfield South- Gas plant buddies get a deal on a new project and subvert and ignore all planning and governance issues. To be honest I dont understand or know what the outcome of hooking up to Union or Vector is?

Cash for Access- disgusting but better to have it in the open I guess, do we not think this is going on all the time? Isnt that what all political fundraisers are?

I love how folks try and make it look like we lost 8 billion dollars.....

The $8 billion is just a valuation after the fact, not even sure if its just the land or serviced of course when you install the services via TACC it doesnt hurt. There will be a public cost though as there is not supposed to be any development charges levied. We'll see how that shakes out and how these lands without services or plans are somehow going to jump ahead of the over a million approved housing sitting waiting

 

[The Bread Guy]

I love how folks try and make it look like we lost 8 billion dollars.....

To be fair, people charged with & convicted of insider trading usually didn't steal/re-direct taxpayer money, but it was illegal/wrong nonetheless.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Interesting read.

Certainly makes one think that if developers were directly shaping land use decisions regarding the greenbelt, where did their influence start, and where does it stop.


And as an aside- where does the provincial government running roughshod over municipal governments and the wishes of their residents to impose suburbia fit within the whole "15 minute cities are killing our choice" narrative?

 

[suffolkowner]

Im always surprised at how nonchalant we are about paving over farmland considering how little we actually have and how much work went into making it

 

[daftandbarmy]

Im always surprised at how nonchalant we are about paving over farmland considering how little we actually have and how much work went into making it

Detroit seems to being going back to farming....

Detroit gets growing​

Detroit was once the engine of America's automotive industry. Today it is a symbol of urban decay. But a daring bid to return the land to farming is sowing seeds of recovery – and could be a template for cities across the world

Across Detroit, land is being turned over to agriculture. Furrows are being tilled, soil fertilised and crops planted and harvested. Like in no other city in the world, urban farming has taken root in Detroit, not just as a hobby or a sideline but as part of a model for a wholesale revitalisation of a major city. Some farms are the product of hardy individualists or non-profit community groups. Others, like Hantz Farms, are backed by millions of dollars and aim to build the world's biggest urban farm right in the middle of the city.

Mark Covington, 38, is one of those 21st-century pioneers, though he stumbled on his role almost by accident. Finding himself unemployed after losing his job as an environmental engineer and living back with his mother two years ago, he started tidying up an empty lot near his Georgia Street home, planting vegetables and allowing local people to harvest them for free. An orchard of fruit trees followed, as did a community centre – made by converting a pair of empty buildings – which keeps local youths off the streets. The result is a transformation of the area around his childhood home. Local kids come to movie nights held amid the crops. Residents love the free, fresh food in an area where no major supermarkets exist. The Georgia Street Community Garden is never vandalised.

Detroit gets growing

Detroit was once the engine of America's automotive industry. Today it is a symbol of urban decay. But a daring bid to return the land to farming is sowing seeds of recovery – and could be a template for cities across the world

www.theguardian.com

 

[Furniture]

Im always surprised at how nonchalant we are about paving over farmland considering how little we actually have and how much work went into making it

Agreed, we should be paving over single family dwellings and building low rise apartments and condos.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Agreed, we should be paving over single family dwellings and building low rise apartments and condos.

Sure. You can come and try pave over mine, I you wish.

 

[Underway]

Im always surprised at how nonchalant we are about paving over farmland considering how little we actually have and how much work went into making it

Farmland is a strategic resource, and should be governed as such. Feds should legitimately have an interest in the loss of farmland, particularly in The Golden Horseshoe where its the most productive in Canada by a long shot (fewer inputs, better soil, longer growing season).

As for Ontario's Municipal Board, it has its uses. Smashing down NIMBY's is a good one. Allowing better access for Developers to move against municipality wishes is a bad one.

Had my druthers I would eliminate the municipal board control over local developments, but retain control over things that "are in the interests of the provience" like power generation, waste, transportation etc...

Cities get to decide how they develop, but Ontario gets to decide on how they connect, services, health etc...
This shouldn't stop mandates on housing mixing, mixed neighbourhoods or build standards. Province still has a role there.

 

[brihard]

Farmland is a strategic resource, and should be governed as such. Feds should legitimately have an interest in the loss of farmland, particularly in The Golden Horseshoe where its the most productive in Canada by a long shot (fewer inputs, better soil, longer growing season).

But nothing constitutionally gives that to the feds. That would be an overstep if they tried to exert powers regarding farmland that they don’t have.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But nothing constitutionally gives that to the feds. That would be an overstep if they tried to exert powers regarding farmland that they don’t have.

Correct: it's a provincial jurisdiction. But now the Feds want the cities and provinces to build more housing, so there's the rub...

An interesting article FYI...

Agricultural Land Protection | Food Policy for Canada

foodpolicyforcanada.info.yorku.ca