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Opportunity to update the CC-150 fleet?

MilEME09

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CloudCover said:
How many aircraft would the feds need to buy in order to help the airlines. Surely it’s not 5 or 6.  This years winter vacation season is dead in the water, so Air Transat and Air Canada are going to eat that.
I suspect the airlines are looking to get rid of many dozens of aircraft and the feds simply can’t do that much for them. They are screwed and not much is going to change in the next few years.

Agreed, the ball is in our court to set terms for a bail out, we could easily get 10+ aircraft of we wanted, that way we have spares.
 

FJAG

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MilEME09 said:
Agreed, the ball is in our court to set terms for a bail out, we could easily get 10+ aircraft of we wanted, that way we have spares.

Or as a reserve force for when we need to deploy a flyover brigade to Poland. That's a lot of chalks.

;D
 

PuckChaser

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FJAG said:
Or as a reserve force for when we need to deploy a flyover brigade to Poland. That's a lot of chalks.

;D

Not with the amount of troops who would be able to DAG Green. Regular or Reserve.
 

GR66

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PuckChaser said:
Not with the amount of troops who would be able to DAG Green. Regular or Reserve.

Don't worry...they'd have plenty of time to get everything in order while they wait for their vehicles and gear to (eventually) arrive by ship once we find some commercial carrier to follow them to Europe.
 

MilEME09

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FJAG said:
Or as a reserve force for when we need to deploy a flyover brigade to Poland. That's a lot of chalks.

;D

Thats another consideration, having the aircraft to get a battle groups personal over as quickly as possible.
 

FJAG

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MilEME09 said:
Thats another consideration, having the aircraft to get a battle groups personal over as quickly as possible.

Sure. They could be piloted by air reservists on a monthly basis just to keep the seals and gaskets wet and to keep down the wear and tear until they're really needed. You could use Air Canada pilots as reservists to keep down the training costs.

;D
 

kev994

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The military already can’t get Air Canada pilots to take reserve jobs. Or at least they couldn’t before March. Overtime at big red apparently pays much better.
 

MAJONES

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Overtime at Big Red doesn’t require you to write an open book IRT, closed book IRT, open book CAT exam, closed book CAT exam, renew section 32/34, do GBA+ training, Green Procurement Training, Contracting Direct with Trade training, LOAC renewal and spend be able to do pepperpots/throw sand bags.
 

YZT580

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Don't need A/C reservists. There are dozens of pilots operating twins and turbo-props with little to no chance of ever grabbing an airline posting who would sell their hot rods for the chance of flying a jet on a regular basis. Carl Millard used to actually charge young pilots for right seat time in his DC3's.
 

kev994

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The RCAF is not going to let anyone without RCAF training fly their $300 million tanker. There is a lot more to the mission than driving a bus in 3D, even if you’re only doing the cargo portion. Another hole in your theory is that qualifying them on that big of an aircraft will concurrently qualify them for an airline job. I don’t see any problems being solved.
 

MilEME09

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The RCAF is not going to let anyone without RCAF training fly their $300 million tanker. There is a lot more to the mission than driving a bus in 3D, even if you’re only doing the cargo portion. Another hole in your theory is that qualifying them on that big of an aircraft will concurrently qualify them for an airline job. I don’t see any problems being solved.
The military as a whole has an issue with recognizing civilian qualifications that have military applications. As an example, let's just say for arguments sake we buy a 737-200, whats stopping us from recruiting an air canada or west jet pilot who was flying that aircraft last week with no issues?
 

kev994

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The military as a whole has an issue with recognizing civilian qualifications that have military applications. As an example, let's just say for arguments sake we buy a 737-200, whats stopping us from recruiting an air canada or west jet pilot who was flying that aircraft last week with no issues?
For starters DND has their own rules, someone will need to teach that conversion, and there are a lot of them. Different mission, if you break your WestJet plane there are maintainers there so you just get it fixed, not an option in Resolute Bay, or whatever other place DND sends you. So for example when my buddy did his Air Canada type course the sim instructor was astounded that he could fly an ILS without using the flight director, I’ve had to do this into CYRB operationally because it broke on the mission, not a lot of other options in the area.
Different training, WestJet teaches you to go to a few major airports; I walked in for a routine trainer a couple weeks ago to find out the CDS had emailed my CO to ask if I could go to Shamattawa that day, 4000 ft runway is short but OK for a C130 if it’s dry but the one time someone was able to get a hold of the airport manager, who isn’t speaking his first language, the runway was compacted snow mixed with gravel, the friction index of that is highly variable and there’s a substantial slope to the runway. A lot of risk assessment being done that isn’t taught at west jet. Oh and it’s snowing but we don’t know what the ceiling or visibility is because it’s not reported, there’s no deicing, and sunset is at 1530. Came to work for a trainer.
 

dapaterson

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1. The RCAF will not acquire any 737 variants for the tanker / transport fleet because no one is operating 737s as tankers. In service tankers are built around either A330s or 767s. (If the Auroras are replaced by manned a/c then the P8, a 737 variant, may end up with Canadian roundels).

2. As noted, there is RCAF specific training required even when the base platform is the same. I suspect having common platforms might be a tool to retain some pilots in the RCAF reserve - transfer out of the Reg F after 25 years, draw a 50% pension, fly for AC, and gain additional hours (and money) flying in the RCAF reserve.

3. The RCAF has mismanged pilot training for decades. resulting in the current shortages of trained pilots and backlogs of pilots in training. There is an institutional need to look at pilot training and employment, top to bottom, to remove dissatisfiers where possible, and make flying a viable career - and not something you do between staff jobs so you can become CDS (the vision of a non-zero number of commanders of the RCAF over the past decade).
 

Fabius

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If we want to provide federal assistance to the Cdn airlines on a regular ongoing basis AND increase the CAF airlift capacities to facilitate large scale deployments or to augment routine deployments to free up actual RCAF aircraft for more difficult environments I would recommend we take a long hard look at the US Civil Reserve Air Fleet concept.

Basically the US Government guarantees peacetime airlift business to US airlines to maintain and commit aircraft to the reserve fleet. The airlines that join are mandated to maintain 4 crews per aircraft and are to have aircraft available on 24,48 and 72hrs NTM. Currently the US has access to over 500 aircraft via this program and has activated it to facilitate Operation DESERT STORM and IRAQI FREEDOM.
The UKs contract for their Point Class Sealift ships is also a similar type idea.

I am sure we could come up with some thing similar to actually provide capability and provide the airline industry support, however I doubt we will.
 

CBH99

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3. The RCAF has mismanged pilot training for decades. resulting in the current shortages of trained pilots and backlogs of pilots in training. There is an institutional need to look at pilot training and employment, top to bottom, to remove dissatisfiers where possible, and make flying a viable career - and not something you do between staff jobs so you can become CDS (the vision of a non-zero number of commanders of the RCAF over the past decade).
I've heard this from a few different folks in the know.

I'm curious as to how the RCAF has mismanaged pilot training? Is there not a pretty streamlined 'pipe' or 'system' where pilots start & finish their training in much the same way as classes before them?

I thought NATO Flying Training In Canada was supposed to be a great program. But that's just from the official releases about it, years ago. Did it not pan out? 😕
 

dapaterson

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There is a significant mismatch between demand and production capacity that the RCAF has not addressed. They hold a large backlog on the BTL - and given that the CAF has a limited ceiling for personnel, every person in excess on the BTL means that TEE positions will be unfilled.
 

YZT580

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I guess that is the end of WestJet's foray into international air travel. Another victim
 

dapaterson

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As I recall, WJ bought used 767s as an interim platform until they got their 787s. Checking Wikipedia, they were 25 year old cast-offs from Qantas.

 
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