- or CTS according to me...

[KevinB]

This started elsewhere and I figured I would take it to the mass media as it where.

As evident I am unimpressed with the direction of CTS - I know several of them (though not well) but I don;t blame them just the corporate entity that CTS has become and the lack of flexibility that they have.


perhaps we can start a Clothe the Combat Arms Soldier Project  :

Starting from the toe to the tip of the head;

Sock system - I dont mind it other than after a few uses they are garbage.

Underwear - go to the underarmour concept - the underwear (bottoms) and long under wear are not bad - but the T Shirts are still ASS.â “ UnderArmour type clothing: â “ close fitting, breathable fabric in a non flammable material if possible â “ failing that, then treated with a flame retardant that does not aggravate the skin

Combat Shirt: I think the Crye Field top has it hands down - the tight fitting top is nicely non snagging  and still breates very well - the pockets have been thoughfully rearrnaged so you can use them with armour on. - the neck zippers but it think a velro closure woudl be better they have that on their combat shirt) - velcro cuff and it is codura reinforced in wear areas - the biggest bonus is built in elbow pads - they are low profile yet work and dont move around or restrict motion /dexterity like the issued GUARGANTUAN cadpat elbow (and knee) pads.

Combat Pants - once again I have to give it to Crye (perhaps its best if I just give the website www.cryeprecision.com for featrue other than have me gush about them all over again.  Pant pocket more forward located so they don't interfere with holster, sub/drop load leg panels. * I really like the padded waist - finally you can wear a pistol belt all day and not really notice it...

Hat: I like ball caps - they protect you face somewhat but are stiff enough not to droop intoi your line of sight that that LARGE brimmed Combat hat.  But I understand some dont like gettign sun on their necks etc...

LBE:  As pretty much everyone know I think the CF issue gear is CRAP
Three different systems are required
One integrated system â “ like a Paraclete RAV for dismounted shooting soliders to use. 
A second Armour setup â “ like the current GenIII PBA and a Chest Rig set up so AFV crewman can easily use it upon dismount.
A 3rd setup for less mobility but maximum protection for truckers etc. who will be driving convoys etc.

  Holster -  two systems â “ one for vehicle crewman one for dismount use.  Based on the Safariland 6004 setup, which proved excellent security and retention â “ but allows for quick and safe access.

Weapons

C8SFW in midlength gas system which will proved more real-estate on the hand guard and provide longer bolt/system life than the carbine gas system. optics non infantry EOTECH 552 - INF: BOTH EOTECH 552 (CCO) [Close Combat Optic] and TA31 ACOG [GPCO] (General Purpose Combat Optic)

C8ECBQ 12.5â ? Midlength gas system shorty â “ for Vehicle/weapon crews.  w/ EOTECH 552

Both system fitted with enhanced M1913 Picatinny Freefloat  (EPFF) rail system  so accessories can be added/subtracted w/o need for live fire zero confirmation.

M203/EGLM â “ closer to bore than current M203A1, attaches to EPFF rail

Breaching Shotgun â “ Remington MCS - as the damn DuckHunter 870 we have is way to big for what we do with it.

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/images/smallarms/870mcs_lg.jpg

More to follow...

  If you wish to debate this please do it point by point or add items you want to see in different items / catagories

thx.

 

[Canadian Sig]

Kevin, what difference would you like to see between dismounted and mounted troops holsters?

 

[KevinB]

Boots: I refer the Danner Desert Acadia - it is a good three season boot (and no polsih ;D)


INDIVIDUAL STANO
Day time optics already covered

MNVG - PVS-14, although having seen the PVS-18 and the dual tube systems (which are IMHO a great deal better) the MNVG PVS-14 is a good piece of kit and alredy in the system.

Infrared Target Pointer/Illuminator/Aiming Laser (ITIPAL) Insight upgraded PEQ-2A/7500 (vis)

Surefire M952MU series flashlight

Surefire M1 IR flashlight (much better than normal light with IR lens - this things is the cats ass for driving a quad with NV on)

 

[KevinB]

Kevin, what difference would you like to see between dismounted and mounted troops holsters?

When mounted the leg holsters (which are nice dismounted - unless walking REALLY far) are awkward and hard to use - especially if in a turret - as a result a lot of crewmen like to use a chest/shoulder harness/holster.

  The safariland holster is a modular body and could be configured to a shoulder rig - however due to its deisgn it is not ambi and needs to be specifically left or right handed...

 

[Bomber]

Boots:  Bates Enforcer ultra lites.  No water repellent liner.  I am a huge fan of molded soles.  Make a 3 pound boot less than 1 pound.  And I like the idea of goretex socks.  Change them, exchange them, clean them.  When they aren't in the boot, you just make it more versatile.  I would like to see this boot in a coyote brown.  Also, a boot needs to be shorter.  the calf's kind of hurt near the end of the day, and I prefer a 7 or 6 inch to the current 8+

Socks:  Merino wool socks are what your feet are secretly crying for.  Wigwam lite hiker are the way to go.

T-Shirt:  UA is a nice brand, but the technology is standard in the industry now.  I believe the kit shop in 1VP is getting a coyote shirt from a BC company.  Very nice, just stretch the neck out if you can.  Speaking of neck, I am sorry ladies, but bring back my V-Necks.  One of the problems the marines are finding with UA is odor.  The shirts are designed to compress, wick, and regulate moisture.  They also turn into a bit of a "self contained environment" and you stew in your juices until you wash it.  Most companies offer an anti-microbial solution, but they are almost always a chemical that is woven or dyed in during manufacture.  Unfortunately, we don;t use team laundry services, but giant industrial washing machines, which remove the anti microbial properties in about 15 washes.  Also, washing repeatedly can hamper the shirts ability to transfer moisture.  I have a "coolmax" shirt that now just holds the moisture and weighs a couple of pounds when you take it off.  I watched a load of presentations on this at a recent army textile conference.  FR is really warm to wear, a nice thing to have since almost everything we wear is an advanced plastic or something that turns to molten liquid when it is on fire, but how often has that happened to us in the past 20 years?  For this "duty" of undergarments, I was really impressed with the booth from Polartec, they just sold 750 000 complete sets of underwear to the US Army last year, it is undies, long johns, and a users choice between a lightweight or silk weight t shirt, and a light-weight or mid-weight thermal shirt.  And it is all in coyote.

Clothing:  Also at the Polartec booth was a water repellant, wind proof thermal shirt, like these crye ones, but in AR, with the pockets on the sleeves.  Folded up really small to. 

Gloves:  Like the new mortar gloves, I can one hand a 105 round with a straight arm by the shoulder, and it doesn't slip at all.  I think these gloves will make ammo handling a much safer job, as the rain and cold have little effect on these gloves.

Head wear:  I like the new balaclava and neck gaiter, made by polartec, and got one of their toques at the conference.  It is really nice sometimes to just wear a warm, itch free toque under a helmet. 

Eyewear:  I got some ESS goggles, and now my old issue goggles are in a rubermaid marked "legacy" alone with my waffle thermal stuff and everything else we used to have

more to follow...

 

[Infanteer]

I do like the US Army idea of going (back to) the Brown Service Boot.  If the CF where to go to a lightweight Service Boot that was Brown as opposed to CADPAT (the stupidest thing I've ever seen), we could do alot to eliminate the "Boot Glut" that all soldiers suffer from (ie: 18 pairs of issued boots).  A troop should basically have 5 pairs of boots:

2 x Lightweight Temperate boot (Something in brown akin to a Jungle Boot)
2 x Cold Weather Boot (Gortex Boot, similar to what we have now, but probably brown as well for high-altitude ops)
1 x Mukluk (for Arctic Ops)

 

[Kal]

Pistol? - Sig, USP, glock, 1911, etc, what?

I've never used the desert danners, how is the ankle support for them?  

The crye stuff, developed in CADPAT I'm assuming.   Or is multicam that much more effective?

Forgot, Stealth suit?  Issue one, or a personally bought piece?

 

[Infanteer]

Multicam is impressive - but still a little too yellow.  Perhaps a variation of it would be good enough to replace both AR and TW CADPAT.  Imagine the burden this would take off of a supply system if all camo equipment was only required in one pattern instead of two (rucks, packs, LBE, uniforms, etc, etc).

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

For underwear, I've found nothing beats my Polartec Power Dry.  It's light, breathable, soft and odor resistant.  In extreme cold, Underarmour Cold Gear is outstanding.

http://www.polartec.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/209

 

[Kal]

While checking out the crye stuff, I came the the conclusion that if a shirt like the combat shirt were adopted, it would probably be motivation enough for some members to get into better shape. 

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Wow, already talking about scrapping Cadpat before 3/4 of the Cadpat kit comes out?  

In regard to the logistical ease of maintaining equipment and uniforms in only one pattern, maybe it's just me, but is anybody else having any Olive Drab deja-vu?  Not to say that OD was the panacea, but the subject of having to produce duplicate sets of everything, or even triplicate or even quadruplicate for overly specific environments (temperate, arid, urban, etc).

On the subject of brown boots, I love the brown/olive shade of the new Marine boots, but I'm not a big fan of the non-polish rough-out leather.  The boots will generally only last a year before they start to dry rot and crack because they haven't been polished.  A boot needs to come out that still has a 'flat' type texture/finish (no-shininess) but is still able to be treated with a oil or cream (danner type boot dressing, neatsfoot oil, etc.) that keeps the leather moisturized and nourished so it remains durable.  

I'm also not a fan of gore-tex boots.  The gore-tex "bootie" that these boots are manufactured with is great at keeping water out, but if you step in a puddle deeper than the boot, do a river crossing, etc. the boots will retain that water just as well.  Also, over time the gore-tex membrane abrades off from the bootie.  I"ve got an old pair of Matterhorn infantry combat boots that are gore-tex lined and my dog chewed them up.  As more of my curiosity getting the best of me, I cut them in half and examined the innards.  I was pretty disapointed to see that in alot of places the gore-tex bootie had been worn through (such as the toebox).  Also, where the bootie was sewn to the boot, the seams were not sealed.  Not so much due to manufacturer cutting corners, but it was not practical to do so.

Everybody's feet are different, but for mine, if I was doing alot of movement on my feet, either rucking or lengthy patrols, my feet would sweat to the point where the Gore-Tex bootie reached its saturation point and couldn't pass moisture through the membrane as fast as my feet were sweating it out.  At that point I might as well have had plastic bags over my socks, because it was essentially the same thing.  I much prefer a free-breathing boot such as the deserts or jungles.

When it does get wet, I prefer to wear a gore-tex oversock (such as the Rocky model).  Alot easier to adjust to conditions, my boots dry out faster without the gore-tex bootie and I can replace the oversocks when they become worn out.

 

[Troopasaurus]

The US and Brits still have two types of camo, desert and temperate.

Actually the US Army is changing to a single uniform, the Army Combat Uniform (ACU). The "Universal Pattern" was discussed here a while ago and Multicam was in competition for that contract but did not win it.

More info can be found http://www.militarymorons.com/misc/camo.html#mcacu

 

[Infanteer]

Why does a combat uniform have to be "mediocre" for other trades?  What a waste of resources.  garrison work can (and should) be done in a decent looking Service Dress (flame me if you want - but I don't think we should go to work looking like dumpy mechanics).

That being said, I don't want a uniform that is designed specifically to be worn under a vest as general issue - I prefer Crye's "Field Shirt" as opposed to the "Combat Shirt" as something to look at for innovation in design.  There are many times when someone in the field will be performing duties without a flak-vest.

http://www.cryeprecision.com/HTLM/products/field_shirt.htm#

 

[KevinB]

Well you all just wrong (see I can act like CTS too!  ;D)

I think it is ridiculous to waste FIELD uniforms in Garrision - Work Dress came before Garrision dress...  I think it is because half the wogs want to feel like warriors.  While I like the Multicam - I like the desidn of the clothing and just CADPAT (TW and AR) in that sort of pattern (for Infanteer - you'd have both tops...)  The Strathcona's (not that I think they should be emulated but... ) due maintenance in coveralls - some guys in the Patricia's do to but very few.  I just fail to see why with the cost of CADPAT combats they have to be worn in Garrison?  I think only field pers should have combats - heck the old OD combat pants could be worn in garrison with regimental tops.

Multicam was not actually competing against the ACU BTW...

I FAIL to understand why the reserves parade in Combats - what a waste - bring back workdress...

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Can I get a new ruck and boots before the 2 of you rock the boat and there is a multimillion dollar boondockle over work dress.

 

[GDawg]

What would you folks have us WOGs, rentals, and desk pilots wear?
I like the idea of having support and HQ types like me wearing combats, it reminds us that we do in fact have to keep up soldier skills and put some bullets down range on occasion. Asides from the pointy end of the CF, the rest of us are increasingly branded as civil servants who dress funny. I wouldn't propose that I need uber fancy kit for climbing mountains or traversing the high arctic, but I do insist on having proper environmental clothing and boots that enable me to leave my office and apply my training as required. I am pretty happy with the kit I have right now and I feel that the cooks/clerks/medics/etc should continue to be issued the current CTS gear.

/end rant.

 

[KevinB]

What would you folks have us WOGs, rentals, and desk pilots wear?
I like the idea of having support and HQ types like me wearing combats, it reminds us that we do in fact have to keep up soldier skills and put some bullets down range on occasion. Asides from the pointy end of the CF, the rest of us are increasingly branded as civil servants who dress funny. I wouldn't propose that I need uber fancy kit for climbing mountains or traversing the high arctic, but I do insist on having proper environmental clothing and boots that enable me to leave my office and apply my training as required. I am pretty happy with the kit I have right now and I feel that the cooks/clerks/medics/etc should continue to be issued the current CTS gear.

/end rant.

Dude you made my case for me. I mean hey the regular inf guys like to feel JTF assaulterish - lets buy them all Nomex CQB suits and MP-5 and C8CQB's so they can do section attacks felling like assaulters  :

1) You dont need a CADPAT ensemble to sit behind a desk.
2) If you are field force and go to the field - the when you go to the field you wear field kit.

I am just sick and tied of some asshat saying - well I dotn like pockets on the sleeves - or I need pockets on my chest for my smokes or notepad etc.  When they dont care how it feels in the field under armour or LBV etc.  Field kit is FIELD KIT - don't water it down for the sake of some donut munching clown that wears his kit out from repeated washes to get the coffe stains out.

CFL - the boondogle would likely get your shit to you quicker.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

All I'm saying is lets get some of the kit we don't have yet before we rework the stuff we do have.  PLEASE.

 

[TCBF]

"The Strathcona's (not that I think they should be emulated but... )"

AHEM......

 

[KevinB]

"The Strathcona's (not that I think they should be emulated but... )"

AHEM......

Would you accept "not emulated entirely" or "not completly emulated to the fullest extent"  ?    ;D