ORCA Class training vessel

[George Wallace]

You may question mine if you like, but again I've said relatively little on the subject here -- only, in effect, that what goes on in a commercial facility in full view of the public is more or less public information.  At any rate, I think I've been civil about it.

Just a point....from your post:  Since when did the Military manufacture any of its weapons systems or equipment? 

They, as far as I have been exposed to in my brief time on this earth, have all been manufactured by commerical facilities.

Are you catching my drift yet?

 

[Neill McKay]

Just a point....from your post:  Since when did the Military manufacture any of its weapons systems or equipment? 

They, as far as I have been exposed to in my brief time on this earth, have all been manufactured by commerical facilities.

Are you catching my drift yet?

Sure, but I think it's significant that most weapons systems are made in enclosed factories.  And so could be these vessels if it were thought worthwhile to do.  The CPFs were built in large modules in an assembly building (closed to all who didn't need to be there), then dropped into the drydock and welded together.  The individual modules were done inside, right down to the lights working if power were hooked up.  All one could see from outside was -- well -- the outside of a ship.  That's the same thing tourists and others will photograph and gawk at for years to come, aerials and weapons and all.

What we're talking about here is a YAG: a vessel whose main purpose is to be navigation and seamanship training, and one that already exists in civilian service elsewhere.  Twelve-year-old sea cadets will sail in them, and be allowed to tell their friends and families all about them.  I appreciate the need for security around military equipment, but in this particular case I don't see very much to worry about.

 

[George Wallace]

Ah! Heck!  I tried.

OK.  Do you have an Security Alarm in your home?  Is your home similar to your neighbour's or another one on your street?  Now, why don't you be so kind as to post some photos and the floor plans for your home for all of us here on the internet?  Come on now, it isn't like there isn't others that are the same as yours out there......Nothing to worry about.......security.......don't worry about it......I am sure there is nothing attractive there that anyone else would want......



[Edit:  I forgot to ask you to post your complete address and directions to your home......would you do that too?]

 

[navymich]

From my link above:

ORCA’s primary mission is to “conduct basic and advanced at-sea training to Regular and Reserve Force Naval personnel”.

Yes, I know it says "primary", and anything else could come out of that, but I still see no reference to sea cadets.  And when the time comes for whoever to sail in them, there will most likely be lots of pictures, and drawings and facts and figures about them available to everyone.  But until then, it is only what is being given out.

As well, even though they are being built in a civilian facility, the ship is not very visible from civilian land, and as I can only see it from DND property, I take that to being "not available to the public."  Obviously information is out there though, as previously stated by OM, he found lots of information on the net.  Easy for anyone to find, or I'm sure he might be so kind as to post a couple of the links if anyone is having trouble on their own.  But to state what I, and others, have said before....WE will not put forward that information.

 

[newfin]

I think we are getting too off topic here and the tone is getting un-friendly.  While I do not think that anyone who wears a uniform should be taking photos of a vessel under construction if they are worried about their security clearance I do not think there is any risk to "security" by doing so.  These are 100' training vessels - not spy satellites.  They are classrooms that float.  A person or organisation could make an argument that "no photogrsaphs" are allowed of any military building, equipment or personnel for security reasons.  Didn't Zarah Kazemi the Iranian-Canadian photographer initially become detained in Iran because she was taking photos of an Iranian jail?  Want to live in a country like that?  A place where the government has taken their paranoia about security to an extreme and arrests and kills people because they have taken pictures of a prison from the outside?

The new training ships should be photographed, videoed and splashed all over the news.  The day the first one is christened it should be the lead story for Peter Mansbridge that night.  Canadians should see the Canadian Armed Forces a lot more than they do. And Canadians should be concerned about security but not so much so that they are prevented from taking pictures of the next HMCS  Whatever that they visit over the summer.

 

[George Wallace]

So newfin; using your logic, are you ready to post your full name, address, and directions to your home, along with photos, and floor plans?  No need for Security there either.  (We could even ask why it isn't all in your profile?)

You may notice signs around many Military establishments, including facilities that are manufacturing military weapons and equipment, that warn not to take photos.  Those are there for reasons that you don't seem to fathom.

 

[newfin]

George,
  I will if you will.  You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

  I don't want to get in an argument with you over this.  We can agree to disagree.  All of my wife's family vote Liberal.  I am usually the only Conservative in the group (12 adults) at family gatherings.  I still love them all.  We just agree to disagree.

Regards,

George

 

[Sub_Guy]

Yes taking photographs at any military establishment is a bad idea..  We can all agree on that.  That being said, if anyone has been to Halifax during the peek of tourist season there is nothing but tourists taking pictures of the fleet sitting there, heck you can get a great view of dockyard from the bridge.  It has been a while since I have been a brow watchkeeper, so I can't say if they still do it in esquimalt, but there were harbour tours at one point in time.

The Orca is out in the open for all to see, I have only seen one picture of it online, and that picture looks like it was taken with a telescopic lens.  There really isn't much from stopping anyone who owns a boat to rip out of the Sailing association to take pictures of any of the vessels in MARPAC.  If we were so concerned about security this vessel would be built in a building and not released for anyone to see until the last minute. 

This isn't the Sea Shadow, or the next big thing.  Just wait until the JSS's are laid down, there will be pictures of them all over the place. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Nothing.  You're an officer (strike one) and a reservist (strike two).  Doesn't take that much to vex people around here.  Glad to see nothing's changed over the past few months I've been away.

Get bent, putz.  You were an overbearing stuffed shirt before and I see you haven't changed since you've been gone.

I guess it took you that long to think we forgot about the election kife you spewed to us lowly auto-bots?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36968/post-305021.html#msg305021
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36968/post-305134.html#msg305134

and of course...
Actually, whether you like it or not, the Liberals have just won the election (albeit with a minority).  See you in 2007, lads.


OOPS, kinda like "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN"

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..and this one is locked untill one of our more "Navyish" people can sort through the rubble that is this thread.