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Ordered to burn accumulated leave.

Jim Seggie said:
I have a question:

Who can authorize this much special leave...10 Days seems a tad much.

From the leave manual:

The OCC or the Commandant of a Canadian Military College may grant up to 14 consecutive calendar days Special Leave (Military Courses) to a student who is under instruction or awaiting a course of instruction.

If I recall correctly, the CMS delegates to the Commandant of CFNES and CFNOS.
 
ModlrMike said:
I have to think that if your course mates are getting 10 days Special, then so should you. Anything else fails the fairness test. One of the  cornerstones of a redress of grievance is to show how you're being, or have been, treated differently. I would submit that being forced to expend leave when others are getting it gratis should qualify.

Good call, again from the ULO end of things, here is the way it works;

1) Military Schools - Students are directed on courses, and generally on the posting message it will state "Members are to report to this unit with ___ days of leave remaining in the current fiscal year."  Now, as it goes, and here is the clerk in me coming out, some members have 4 days of leave left, some have 14.  Well, the fairness test comes down to a statement of equal entitlements: Pte Bloggins gets 10 days leave, Pte Able gets 10 days leave.  The method of leave expenditure is irrelevant.  The purpose of this class of special leave is to allow all members to take the same period of leave.  Example below;

Pte Bloggins reports on course with 10 days annual leave remaining and Pte Able reports with 4 days remaining.  Students are given a two-week summer block leave period, Pte Bloggins is required to expend his 10 days Annual for the period.  Pte Able on the other hand expends his 4 days Annual and 6 days Special-Military Courses.

Regardless, the policy is clear, all CF members will have a zero balance of Annual Leave by 31 Mar.

2) University Students - Because of the various and usually lengthy amount of "time-off" students get from school, this policy exists.  OCdt Bloggins has 20 days Annual leave, throughout the year, the OCdt has expended all 20 days Annual following his summer work term.  Christmas rolls around, and OCdt Bloggins is granted 4 days Special - Education in order to allow him to enjoy Christmas vacation like everyone else does.

As you can all gather, the fairness comes from the entitlement, not the method in which it is achieved.  That being said, Accumulated leave is a touchy subject relevant to University or College students only.  Example below;

OCdt Bloggins has 20 days Annual and 15 days Accumulated (presuming the member was unable to expend all Annual the year before).  The OCdt burns their 20 Annual during the summer break, and burns 4 days Accumulated for Christmas.  Again, the entitlement to Special in this case is to assist those who have insufficient leave to enjoy the same breaks as everyone else.

Cheers!
 
I really disagree with you on the fairness test. Pte Able would be getting 26 days of leave (20 Annual + 4 special) given to him, where Pte Bloggins would only be getting his entitlement of 20. How is that fair? You don't know the situation that preceded the member heading on course. They could have be operational and not have had the time to burn the leave, or gotten the JIs late and again couldn't burn the time off. If Mbr A is getting 10 Special for his course, Mbr B should be getting the same, regardless of what Annual they showed up with. If they can't burn the leave before 31 March, we have a system in place to let them accumulate it.
 
PuckChaser,

I agree with you to some extent.  Member B should only be getting the same amount of special if, for operational reasons, he couldn't show up to course with the same amount of annual as everyone else.  That proof would have to come from his supervisor.
 
Further to my last... I think having to burn unused annual is OK. I have a tough time with him having to use accumulated.
 
ModlrMike said:
Further to my last... I think having to burn unused annual is OK. I have a tough time with him having to use accumulated.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I'm unsure whether or not an order to use up accumulated leave prior to being granted special would be considered a legal order or not, but I sure as hell know I would not issue such an order were I given a choice in the matter.
 
JesseWZ said:
The 1.2 candidates at the Infantry School got 10 days Special, but rumor has it it went up to Comd LFDTS for the authorization.
That is fact.  The Comd LFDTS signed-off on a great big list of every student at a CTC school who required Special Leave (Military Course) in order to make it through the holidays.  Unfortunately for a few individuals, Special Leave (Military Course) must be taken on consecutive days and so a very small number of CTC students had to return to the schools even ahead of most staff.
 
MCG, regarding your comment on delegated auth for the signing off of Special (Military Courses), the head of DPALC also has ben given authority for this.  Either that or my leave was given to me illegally.  ;D
 
Thank you all for your input. The situation still hasn't been resolved. I have been pushing the issue and am going to request to sell my accumulated leave. The staff is still insisting that we can be forced to take accumulated leave. I have asked to see where that rule is written and am still waiting. Others on my course are going to wait it out and try to keep theirs.  I will be sure to let everyone know how it turns out in the end. Which should be soon Feb 14 is when the leave period begins.

Someone posted a comment about annual having to be used by march 31st. I have no issues with this I will be using 3 days of annual and hopefully getting 7 days special.
 
Moxo said:
I have been pushing the issue and am going to request to sell my accumulated leave.

Why not hold on to it?  It's a hell of a lot more valuable to you as a CPO1 than it is as a killick.  Unless you really, really need the money now (or the time off), bank it for a rainy day 20 years from now when it's much, much more valuable...
 
Moxo said:
Thank you all for your input. The situation still hasn't been resolved. I have been pushing the issue and am going to request to sell my accumulated leave. The staff is still insisting that we can be forced to take accumulated leave. I have asked to see where that rule is written and am still waiting. Others on my course are going to wait it out and try to keep theirs.  I will be sure to let everyone know how it turns out in the end. Which should be soon Feb 14 is when the leave period begins.

Someone posted a comment about annual having to be used by march 31st. I have no issues with this I will be using 3 days of annual and hopefully getting 7 days special.
Currently, the School(s) are NOT accepting leave passes until this is clarified through some sort of direction. No one at the School supports the requirement to utilize Accumulated/Accrued leave for this and I cannot seem to find out where this direction came from. All that said, when my "little birdie" gets back to me, I will let you know either on here or by PM.
Be patient!
 
I'll phone my 'little birdie' this morning. Actually, truth be told, he is a big ugly PO1 Stoker!
 
Real interesting case.  Can't wait to see the result.  From what is known at the moment the redress  would get full support on this end as we do not find anything stating the member can be made to use his accumulated/accrued leave.

Keep us posted.

Cheers
 
The latest (from MSE Div anyway) is:
"A Student from MSE Div was told by the Reg Office that No Accrued leave can be forced to be taken.  Annual will be taken over the 2 week school shutdown.

This is most likely the individual that has been asking questions."


Unfortunately, he didn't tell me more about individuals who haven't enough annual to take them over the break. I know in the past (including over Christmas holidays), if students/staff didn't have enough leave, they were 'put to work' somewhere on the Base.
I think this got a little blown out of proportion somewhere along the way and I can't imagine with whom. This whole Break was to tie into the modified School Break so people could accompany their families and volunteer/observe the Canada Winter Games. When the idea was first broached well over a year ago at a HoDs and ChoDs, there were a few groans in the room because a few of us knew something like this may happen.

Bottom line-This appears to be a dead issue.
Moxo, if you are told anything different, don't hesitate to PM me.
 
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