Ottawa unveils details of Nova Scotia carbon tax that will take effect next summer

[lenaitch]

We have plenty of downed and cleared trees around here, cheap. We can do a full cord for around $150 and work. Or you can be lazy and have a face cord delivered for $50 - $75. No, it isn't the perfect solution. When the government makes it near impossible to purchase fuel oil, LNG, LP or electric heat, during the Canadian winter, the environment and climate change move to the bottom of the list as a cause de-jour. Especially when the whole problem is perceived as the fault of the government and flawed science. Practical people stop listening to 'experts' when their canned good are freezing in the cupboard and your open fridge door is warmer than the room your in. Your not leaving them a choice.

Having a sufficient and ready supply of wood near an urban area is very location specific. And it isn't always a matter of "lazy". Many urban properties might not have the physical space to store cords of wood (if it's going to be your primary, you'll probbly need more than one, many properties, like condos, don't lend themselves to wood, not everybody has truck or a car capable of towing a decent-sized trailer, and a lot of people simply aren't physically capable of the cutting, hauling, splitting, piling, etc. required.

Having never used oil before the sticker shock filling up this year was palpable. I am already looking at switching to heat pump and electric furnace options

We bought a house with forced air electric back in the '90s (I don't remember what the rates were). Basically a big toaster with a fan. I watched the meter try to auto-rotate off the wall long enough to replace it. Oil for a couple years until they brought gas in. Nine years - three heating systems. Then we moved.

 

[Brad Sallows]

We have plenty of downed and cleared trees around here, cheap.

What I mean is: it can't be a solution on a large scale. The environmental damage would be a lot worse than whatever it is people are worrying about right now. Air quality like mid-nineteenth century London?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yikes, I had no idea it was still so widespread. This carbon tax is going to really hurt, I fundamentally disagree with it on home heating fuels, as it's really not an option.

There are a lot of subsidized home upgrade programs and rebates, but you still need to be able to pay for a large portion or fork out the money first. Can't do that if you are getting nailed by an extra tax (although there have been rebates in place for 15+ years for home efficiency upgrades, with a lot of additional ones coming up over the years, so my sympathy is somewhat limited for the homeowners that will now be doing a surprised pikachu and haven't been paying attention as the cost of heating oil has gone up threefold).

My Parents live in Northern NB. The common way to heat your home there is with Home heating oil.

They are now spending upwards of $4000.00 annually on home heating costs. The Carbon Taxes have exacerbated the issue.

My parents have a wood pellet stove and have now had air heat pumps installed to try to absorb the costs of fuel.

My Father is getting up in age and is starting to have difficulty carrying all the Wood Pellets as well.

Things aren't so simple in Rural Canada.

 

[Halifax Tar]

My Parents live in Northern NB. The common way to heat your home there is with Home heating oil.

They are now spending upwards of $4000.00 annually on home heating costs. The Carbon Taxes have exacerbated the issue.

My parents have a wood pellet stove and have now had air heat pumps installed to try to absorb the costs of fuel.

My Father is getting up in age and is starting to have difficulty carrying all the Wood Pellets as well.

Things aren't so simple in Rural Canada.

All I hope is people remember this. And punt these fools into the nether regions next election.

I would love to see the LPC go away and come back more as a centerist party.

 

[Navy_Pete]

My Parents live in Northern NB. The common way to heat your home there is with Home heating oil.

They are now spending upwards of $4000.00 annually on home heating costs. The Carbon Taxes have exacerbated the issue.

My parents have a wood pellet stove and have now had air heat pumps installed to try to absorb the costs of fuel.

My Father is getting up in age and is starting to have difficulty carrying all the Wood Pellets as well.

Things aren't so simple in Rural Canada.

For sure, which is why I think home heating fuel (oil, bat gas, propane etc) should be exempt from any carbon taxes. But regardless of additional carbon taxes, anything oil based is only going to continue to climb, and provincial and federal governments are actually incentivized to maintain high barrel prices for the tax revenue, and things like sanctions on Russia or OPEC market price manipulation aren't going away either.

If a grocery store can not charge me GST on some items on the same bill, this is easily doable. Really not a fan of the top-down approach on this one, as the solutions really need tailored to the area. Some things may work fine in some cities, not in others, and then the country/remote areas are their own totally different thing.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

All I hope is people remember this. And punt these fools into the nether regions next election.

I would love to see the LPC go away and come back more as a centerist party.

I doubt it, the people that control things don't understand. They don't even want to understand.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

For sure, which is why I think home heating fuel (oil, bat gas, propane etc) should be exempt from any carbon taxes. But regardless of additional carbon taxes, anything oil based is only going to continue to climb, and provincial and federal governments are actually incentivized to maintain high barrel prices for the tax revenue, and things like sanctions on Russia or OPEC market price manipulation aren't going away either.

If a grocery store can not charge me GST on some items on the same bill, this is easily doable. Really not a fan of the top-down approach on this one, as the solutions really need tailored to the area. Some things may work fine in some cities, not in others, and then the country/remote areas are their own totally different thing.

The Southern part of NB actually uses a lot of NG, as does Halifax proper. The problem is it does make economic sense to branch out to rural areas due to lack of population.

The issue I have is that our respective levels of Government don't respect the important role rural communities play.

I often see the argument that more of our people live in City X so they should receive more of our support. But guess who was the single biggest contributor to the tax base in NB for 50+ years:

The Brunswick Mine and Smelter

Just like everywhere else, the Urban dominated Government sucks the marrow from Rural Canada and then doesn't give the people who do the work their fair share.

 

[Halifax Tar]

For sure, which is why I think home heating fuel (oil, bat gas, propane etc) should be exempt from any carbon taxes. But regardless of additional carbon taxes, anything oil based is only going to continue to climb, and provincial and federal governments are actually incentivized to maintain high barrel prices for the tax revenue, and things like sanctions on Russia or OPEC market price manipulation aren't going away either.

If a grocery store can not charge me GST on some items on the same bill, this is easily doable. Really not a fan of the top-down approach on this one, as the solutions really need tailored to the area. Some things may work fine in some cities, not in others, and then the country/remote areas are their own totally different thing.

The price we pay for fuel and oil goes way beyond the control of any provincial government.

As you mentioned we have socioeconomic factors, market factors and taxation.

The price per barrel doesn't demand the current price per liter, if you look at historical trends. We are being gouged by big oil and then piggy piled on by the Government simultaneously.

 

[QV]

I would note that elections have consequences.

The Liberals made no secret of their carbon tax plans. Yet, Nova Scotia still voted strongly Liberal last election.

I fail to see how anyone could not understand the outcome…

Wasn't this the "you'll get back more than you pay" tax? Or was that something else...? Agree with your points though.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Wasn't this the "you'll get back more than you pay" tax? Or was that something else...? Agree with your points though.

That's how they're selling it.

 

[QV]

Aside from the cost, there was a spate of greasy junkies cutting the copper line from the tanks to the house for a couple dollars of scrap value, and causing hundreds of thousands in enviromental damage when the oil all ran out into the dirt (and seeped into the foundation). That was about 12 years ago, and think the scrap dealers got a massive kicking from the police on that one in their investigation for stolen goods. Don't think there were charges but they were definitely getting watched.

Those greasy buggers are pretty sketchy anyway though; used to have to regularly send the MPs around the scrap yards looking for big expensive bronze valve and components that disappeared off the shelves.

Getting sidetracked though; I think particularly for people on the margins, just makes sense to have government backed loans for those kind of upgrades. A few hundred a month on a loan repayment is a lot easier to handle then $500+ a month on home heating.

This cost me a $90,000 insurance claim.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What I mean is: it can't be a solution on a large scale. The environmental damage would be a lot worse than whatever it is people are worrying about right now. Air quality like mid-nineteenth century London?

I am not advocating for a wholesale move to wood. I'm talking about people surviving the Canadian winter due to phony carbon taxes where not one single cent has been spent on climate R&D. It's nothing more than a punishment tax and now they are just adding insult to injury for the taxpayer.

Sorry Brad. I don't believe the carbon hype. Not with stuff like Artemis and approx 1500 private jets at Davos.

Jump to 2.15

The irony does not escape me.

Having a sufficient and ready supply of wood near an urban area is very location specific. And it isn't always a matter of "lazy". Many urban properties might not have the physical space to store cords of wood (if it's going to be your primary, you'll probbly need more than one, many properties, like condos, don't lend themselves to wood, not everybody has truck or a car capable of towing a decent-sized trailer, and a lot of people simply aren't physically capable of the cutting, hauling, splitting, piling, etc. required.

Again, there is zero advocacy for full on national wood burning strategy. I'm talking individuals who need something besides blankets and toques (yes, with gloves ). I keep a face cord on my 35' x 100' city home lot. However, I would have zero problem putting a full cord there either. My stove is for my shop, so there's lots of scrape wood to burn also. I'd like to know what condo committee would let you put a stack through the wall and run a wood burning stove. People don't have trucks and trailers? I'll bet they have friends that do. Not physically capable? There's tons of kids that want some pocket change.

I'm getting lots of what if's and how abouts. If you come to me with a problem or criticism, you should come with and present your own solution to it.

What are your plans to help people stay warm, that can't afford their current situation? Change your socks and take a handful of airborne smarties?

 

[Brad Sallows]

bat gas

Are there really enough methane-producing bats to make that viable?

 

[dapaterson]

Are there really enough methane-producing bats to make that viable?

Feed them Army field breakfast.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I fully understand the complications of heating rural homes. I grew up semi-rural; we had a fireplace on both levels of the house and cut a couple of cords each fall to augment the natural gas furnace. Obviously natural gas isn't like cell phones where you can just build a tower and broadcast. It is like electric power, where if you want the service you might have to pay to have the line run. Forget about climate change; cities wouldn't tolerate the air quality problem of widespread wood burning.

We aren't being gouged by "Big Oil". We're paying market prices in a high demand market. The way to alleviate high demand is to increase supply. To increase supply requires a favourable investment climate. Favourability of the investment climate depends heavily on which political parties control the legislatures. Political control depends entirely on voters. "You caught it, you clean it." No sympathy.

 

[lenaitch]

I am not advocating for a wholesale move to wood. I'm talking about people surviving the Canadian winter due to phony carbon taxes where not one single cent has been spent on climate R&D. It's nothing more than a punishment tax and now they are just adding insult to injury for the taxpayer.

Sorry Brad. I don't believe the carbon hype. Not with stuff like Artemis and approx 1500 private jets at Davos.

Jump to 2.15

The irony does not escape me.


Again, there is zero advocacy for full on national wood burning strategy. I'm talking individuals who need something besides blankets and toques (yes, with gloves ). I keep a face cord on my 35' x 100' city home lot. However, I would have zero problem putting a full cord there either. My stove is for my shop, so there's lots of scrape wood to burn also. I'd like to know what condo committee would let you put a stack through the wall and run a wood burning stove. People don't have trucks and trailers? I'll bet they have friends that do. Not physically capable? There's tons of kids that want some pocket change.

I'm getting lots of what if's and how abouts. If you come to me with a problem or criticism, you should come with and present your own solution to it.

What are your plans to help people stay warm, that can't afford their current situation? Change your socks and take a handful of airborne smarties?

Perhaps I was unclear; I agree that no condo board would allow such an addition. There are all sorts of inner city people who have no vehicle and their circle doesn't either. Reasons vary from they are voluntarily transit users to they can't afford one. They live on Uber if the need arises.

I feel no compulsion to provide a solution to you, and I have seen this response in other threads. It's a social media forum. I'm not discussing matters with an employer or superior nor am I defending my thesis. I admit I have no plan for those people. You raise points - I raise points; that's the extent of it. But I'll keep in mind that my interaction with some users seems to be conditional.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Perhaps I was unclear; I agree that no condo board would allow such an addition. There are all sorts of inner city people who have no vehicle and their circle doesn't either. Reasons vary from they are voluntarily transit users to they can't afford one. They live on Uber if the need arises.

I feel no compulsion to provide a solution to you, and I have seen this response in other threads. It's a social media forum. I'm not discussing matters with an employer or superior nor am I defending my thesis. I admit I have no plan for those people. You raise points - I raise points; that's the extent of it. But I'll keep in mind that my interaction with some users seems to be conditional.

We make choices to be dependent or independent. Usually it's a mixture of both.

 

[Nightingale93]

It’s only a matter of time before the Conservative Party hands the liberals the next election on a silver platter. They already lost 3 times in a row, they’ll lose again.
This country is done for, face it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Before this Liberal government (since late 2015, so just a little over 7 years so far) the Conservatives had government for 9 years. No need to panic yet.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's how they're selling it.

Liberals are saying 8 put of 10 people get money back.
Conservatives say 6 out of 10 won't.