Ottawa's sluggish bureaucracy leaves critical gaps in Canadian military ammo supply: AG

[daftandbarmy]

Amateurs talk tactics... something, something, beans and bullets...

Ottawa's sluggish bureaucracy leaves critical gaps in Canadian military ammo supply: AG​

A new report by the auditor general takes shots at both the Department of National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada over their handling of the Canadian military's strategic stockpile of ammunition.

Karen Hogan's latest report, tabled on Thursday, concluded that the Defence Department does not manage its ammunition to meet its regular use and strategic stockpile needs and the federal procurement agency was slow in efforts to restock ammunition.

Her analysis found that the strategic stockpile, which the military needs in case of war, did not contain "all the types and quantities of ammunition required" and there were significant gaps.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/defence-ammunition-auditor-procurement-9.7401723

 

[dapaterson]

OAG report: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/o...g-202610-ammunition-canadian-armed-forces.PDF

"We found that National Defence could not demonstrate that it had determined the right types and quantities of ammunition needed for its annual, regular-use supply. We expected that each user group, and the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole, would have had clearly analyzed and documented regular-use ammunition requirements and would have had a complete understanding of the types and quantities of ammunition needed to meet those requirements."

 

[Furniture]

OAG report: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/o...g-202610-ammunition-canadian-armed-forces.PDF

"We found that National Defence could not demonstrate that it had determined the right types and quantities of ammunition needed for its annual, regular-use supply. We expected that each user group, and the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole, would have had clearly analyzed and documented regular-use ammunition requirements and would have had a complete understanding of the types and quantities of ammunition needed to meet those requirements."

I'm guessing the SME's do have numbers, and were told by higher to "adjust" them to meet the budget requirements.

When the budget, and "cost savings" are the name of the game, people play games with requirements.

 

[Cloud Cover]

OAG report: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/o...g-202610-ammunition-canadian-armed-forces.PDF

"We found that National Defence could not demonstrate that it had determined the right types and quantities of ammunition needed for its annual, regular-use supply. We expected that each user group, and the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole, would have had clearly analyzed and documented regular-use ammunition requirements and would have had a complete understanding of the types and quantities of ammunition needed to meet those requirements."

Some people in DND/ CAF really, really, really suck at their jobs.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I'm guessing the SME's do have numbers, and were told by higher to "adjust" them to meet the budget requirements.

When the budget, and "cost savings" are the name of the game, people play games with requirements.

But still those draft numbers should exist somewhere. Perhaps we should write the OAG to go back and request those drafts and explain their reasoning about any changes. I mean, let’s get it all out into the open.

 

[Furniture]

But still those draft numbers should exist somewhere. Perhaps we should write the OAG to go back and request those drafts and explain their reasoning about any changes. I mean, let’s get it all out into the open.

You're asking for more than the CAF can give...

The ask to dig down to the numbers would have to be so sweeping that it would be unmanageable. Every layer of admin has layers of admin... A Buffer might have number for qualifying each member of the ship's company, but then that's filtered through the ship, before going to fleet, before going to MARPAC, before going to C Navy, etc... At each layer the number gets massaged to meet the expectations/budget of the boss above.

In my world the CAF would budget 500 rounds 5.56mm and 9mm for every member, every year. Just to meet the basic standard. If you're shooting less than that, you can't reliably shoot.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In my world the CAF would budget 500 rounds 5.56mm and 9mm for every member, every year. Just to meet the basic standard. If you're shooting less than that, you can't reliably shoot.

Preach my brother!

 

[FSTO]

 

[Brad Sallows]

There should be nothing wrong with having three sets of numbers: the scale required for training, the scale required for war, and the scale permitted by budgets. This would not really be any different than having two sets of numbers for people (establishment, PY) and equipment (establishment, budgeted).

 

[Cloud Cover]

There should be nothing wrong with having three sets of numbers: the scale required for training, the scale required to maintain a stockpile for 2 years of high intensity war in Europe, and the scale permitted by budgets. This would not really be any different than having two sets of numbers for people (establishment, PY) and equipment (establishment, budgeted).

 

[dapaterson]

I'm guessing the SME's do have numbers, and were told by higher to "adjust" them to meet the budget requirements.

When the budget, and "cost savings" are the name of the game, people play games with requirements.

Having been through OAG audits, if OAG is saying "DND doesn't have the numbers", then DND doesn't have the numbers.

The large pool of staff whose work output is largely SALY (same as last year), rather than understanding their job and applying analysis & logic to ensure up to date information as situations change is a huge problem in DND / CAF.

For example, orders for the first generation of CADPAT were based on sizing information from the 1950s. By 2020, there were still thousands of new, never issued CADPAT first generation uniforms in stock, because they were all the smaller sizes that society had outgrown.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If ammunition forecasting is as hard as ration forecasting I feel a sense of comradeship through shared adversity with those doing it.

We are amazing at complicating the most simple evolutions.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Some people in DND/ CAF really, really, really suck at their jobs.

If ammunition forecasting is as hard as ration forecasting I feel a sense of comradeship through shared adversity with those doing it.

We are amazing at complicating the most simple evolutions.

When I worked in HQ, I got a birds eye view of how the Army managed ammunition. It was a random career EME Major who looked after the file and they had a random collection of Excel Spreadsheets and two disgruntled Captains assisting them.

It was all very sad and kind of pathetic so this report doesn't surprise me. I'm certain it looks no better at the National Level. We have trouble with small arms ammunition so I don't even want to peak in to big ticket items like missiles and bombs.

Why is the CAF getting blamed solely for this though is my question? CAF ≠ DND are not the same department. DND is a big joke IMO and any problems the CAF faces start and stop with the civilian overlords who couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I don’t know why the OAG called out both entities.

 

[dapaterson]

Why is the CAF getting blamed solely for this though is my question? CAF ≠ DND are not the same department. DND is a big joke IMO and any problems the CAF faces start and stop with the civilian overlords who couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery as far as I'm concerned.

You begin your tale with three inept officers unable to their job and conclude that the CAF is blameless. DND is far from perfect. But the CAF also has problems.

The OAG report is generous with its finger pointing at CAF, DND and PSPC.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You begin your tale with three inept officers unable to their job and conclude that the CAF is blameless. DND is far from perfect. But the CAF also has problems.

The OAG report is generous with its finger pointing at CAF, DND and PSPC.

Shit flows downhill. 1x middle level manager and 2xJOs are at the very bottom of the shitberg