Out-of-shape soldiers a 'national threat'

[Halifax Tar]

Doues anyone here have experience with the BFTA (Basic Fitness Training Assistant) course? Would having more NCOs with this qual make a difference in units with limited time for PT (particularly in the reserves)?

I completed the BFTA course a year ago.  Its a great course and I encourage anyone to take it.  Of course in order for you and your unit to truly get your "monies worth" out of that course your unit should then consider using your new found ability/qualification.

I digress.  Great course.  There is a follow on, AFTA, as well if you are so inclined. 

 

[MikeL]

After following this thread I have to wonder weather some members of this forum are more interested in the size of ones tunic and how soldier/sailors/airmen appear to look on a parade square than how they can actually function and complete the tasks given to them.

IMO as a member of the Canadian Forces you should be physically able to do your job(and pass PT tests), as well present a suitable military appearance as we represent the CAF.

A member doesn't need to look like a fitness model, but they shouldn't be look obese either.

 

[cupper]

A member doesn't need to look like a fitness model, but they shouldn't appear to be obese either.

FTFY.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Some like endurance, some like lifting

 

[OldSolduer]

Sorry missed that one.  My point was that I'd rather have a powerlifter that has to eat all the time than a guy who's obese.  Next time I'll reference your post vice trying to post something to highlight the silliness of the idea that you don't have time to eat on an exercise as listed above.    ???

I take exception to this.

We cannot stop in the middle of a patrol for Bloggins the BodyBuilder to eat his snack or after a platoon attack or whatever so he can scarf rations down. Not going to happen.
This is the Army, not day care.

I am all for physical fitness, and I in no way said there is not time to eat on ex. You might want to wind your neck in.

 

[Quirky]

I take exception to this.

We cannot stop in the middle of a patrol for Bloggins the BodyBuilder to eat his snack or after a platoon attack or whatever so he can scarf rations down. Not going to happen.
This is the Army, not day care.

I am all for physical fitness, and I in no way said there is not time to eat on ex. You might want to wind your neck in.

You mean you can't pack 10lbs of protein in your checked luggage on deployments? 

Some like endurance, some like lifting

Question is, who would you rather have put on a uniform?

 

[Sythen]

I take exception to this.

We cannot stop in the middle of a patrol for Bloggins the BodyBuilder to eat his snack or after a platoon attack or whatever so he can scarf rations down. Not going to happen.
This is the Army, not day care.

I am all for physical fitness, and I in no way said there is not time to eat on ex. You might want to wind your neck in.

With all due respect, if someone can't put a protein bar or something similar in a pocket during a patrol then I dunno what to say. One guy in my section said it best when he said, 'A patrol is just a very long walk to find the perfect place to sit down.' There was so much downtime during a typical patrol it was unreal. Heck, even during the longer firefights we had downtime. Its not unrealistic to maintain a high calorie eating pattern just because you're a soldier.

You mean you can't pack 10lbs of protein in your checked luggage on deployments?

Why can't you? You also get care packages and every other week, we'd send in a shopping list to our CQ. Since he was awesome, he would go to the PX and get us protein powder, and other things like that and we'd sign some sheet (forget what its called) but they'd just take the money off our pay. Mind you I only saw 5 or 6 COPs in theatre, but all of them had a decent bench and some free weights.

I know someone will say, 'Just because it happened that way in Afghanistan doesn't mean it will be that way in the next conflict!'. True enough. And if we're landing on China's shores or whatever other craziness might happen in the future, I guess the guy will lose some weight. Otherwise, there really isn't anything stopping a sufficiently motivated soldier from continuing more or less a decent weight training regime in theatre.

 

[McG]

After following this thread I have to wonder weather some members of this forum are more interested in the size of ones tunic and how soldier/sailors/airmen appear to look on a parade square than how they can actually function and complete the tasks given to them.

I think this is the counter argument used when one forgets we are an organization whoes job is war.  That means it is not good enough for Bloggins the vehicle tech to be just fit enough to do his job in Canada or on the FOB.  He needs to be fit enough for the day his truck takes an RPG to the engine and he must haul his injuried fireteam partner from the vehicle and then fight out of the ambush.  Same, fit enough to turn wrenches in the lower decks of a ship will not be good enough the day a YJ-12 drives home into a frigate.

 

[Armymedic]

Sorry missed that one.  My point was that I'd rather have a powerlifter that has to eat all the time than a guy who's obese. 

I understand what you are trying to say but....

Even with a BMI of 32 and some spare around the waist, I have yet to meet a power lifter that I can't out run or out ruck.  Not to mention, those types do not do well on selections in the CF. personally, I find people like that do it to look good, not for improved job performance.

Strong like bull, run like rock, does not work in our lines of work. You have to have a balanced fitness level. And the mental toughness to make it go far.

 

[OldSolduer]

I understand what you are trying to say but....

Even with a BMI of 32 and some spare around the waist, I have yet to meet a power lifter that I can't out run or out ruck.  Not to mention, those types do not do well on selections in the CF. personally, I find people like that do it to look good, not for improved job performance.

Strong like bull, run like rock, does not work in our lines of work. You have to have a balanced fitness level. And the mental toughness to make it go far.

Thank you. Good post .

I think this is the counter argument used when one forgets we are an organization whoes job is war.  That means it is not good enough for Bloggins the vehicle tech to be just fit enough to do his job in Canada or on the FOB.  He needs to be fit enough for the day his truck takes an RPG to the engine and he must haul his injuried fireteam partner from the vehicle and then fight out of the ambush.  Same, fit enough to turn wrenches in the lower decks of a ship will not be good enough the day a YJ-12 drives home into a frigate.

Bang on.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Strong like bull, run like rock, does not work in our lines of work. You have to have a balanced fitness level. And the mental toughness to make it go far.

Agreed, balanced is the key word.  Everyone is different and I've met the 5'5" 160lbs Cpl that can push himself for days and carry tons of gear, and I've also met the 6'1" 210lbs Lt that can bench press a truck but can't keep up on a ruck march.  It's all about balance and as others have said the ability to do your job in whatever environment/situation you find yourself in.  Proper dress and deportment in your dress uniform is also important, but less so than the ability to perform in the field.

 

[Jarnhamar]

  Proper dress and deportment in your dress uniform is also important, but less so than the ability to perform in the field.

Heresy.
Polished boots and a smartly turned out uniform will destroy the enemies will to fight  ;D

 

[Kat Stevens]

Heresy.
Polished boots and a smartly turned out uniform will destroy the enemies will to fight.

And in that spirit I start lobbying in Ottawa tomorrow for a return to shakos,  neck stocks and cross belts.  It was good enough to put the run on Napoleon, it's good enough for the Talibunnies.  Besides, I'll never have to wear them.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Heresy.
Polished boots and a smartly turned out uniform will destroy the enemies will to fight  ;D

Touche salesman, touche.

 

[Chernoble]

We need to move beyond "Well the CDS said" and "DAOD says this" and make real incentives.  The US Military scores the annual PT test.  Meet the minimum standard, and you get minimum points, max the test, you get max points.

PERs are moving to a simple system - pass FORCE and you get to go to a merit board, don't pass and you aren't looked at.  This isn't good enough.  We need a system where FORCE failures are put on the administrative track, FORCE minimums get 1 point on their PER and some graded score can allow members who surpass the standard to get 2 to a maximum of 5 points on the PER.  What's a better incentive to promote a fitness culture then having COs who enforce a standard having all their guys getting 4-5 points at merit boards while less dedicated units are getting 1-2?

Tie fitness to promotions, money and career advancement and you'll see a cultural shift in the CAF.

This is exactly how I feel.

Also:  Weight is not as well balanced with fitness as it is with food.  If people took the time to think about what they put into their bodies first, they wouldn't have to stress so much about how to get it out of their bodies with copious amounts of extra PT.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

I take exception to this.

We cannot stop in the middle of a patrol for Bloggins the BodyBuilder to eat his snack or after a platoon attack or whatever so he can scarf rations down. Not going to happen.
This is the Army, not day care.

I am all for physical fitness, and I in no way said there is not time to eat on ex. You might want to wind your neck in.

I understand what you are trying to say but....

Even with a BMI of 32 and some spare around the waist, I have yet to meet a power lifter that I can't out run or out ruck.  Not to mention, those types do not do well on selections in the CF. personally, I find people like that do it to look good, not for improved job performance.

Strong like bull, run like rock, does not work in our lines of work. You have to have a balanced fitness level. And the mental toughness to make it go far.

While we're on the topic, how about those super fit in garrison types that need to eat every two hours or they wilt. Seen it. Not impressed.

Field fitness and garrison fitness are different IMO.

Doing 4-5 platoon attacks per day with patrolling at night demands a different mental attitude as well. We can't stop for Blogins the bodybuilder to eat every two hours.

You can and you should.  You should be constantly hydrating and eating during those exercises.  Either way it's better than stopping for Chubby Mcfatterson after 100m of a section attack, or just standing around in 36 degree heat.

  Give bloggins the scran from your IMP and tell him to cram his pie hole whenever he can.  He's probably bragging about how much he can press when he should be snacking anyways.

Sorry missed that one.  My point was that I'd rather have a powerlifter that has to eat all the time than a guy who's obese.  Next time I'll reference your post vice trying to post something to highlight the silliness of the idea that you don't have time to eat on an exercise as listed above.    ???

Point 1
We all can acknowledge there is a difference between field fitness and gym/garrison fitness, but at the same time, its been clearly pointed out by guys who've been there and done that, that there is plenty of time on patrols to throw something with calories in your mouth...hell as someone pointed out, if you can drink while on patrol (which you should be hydrating) then you can damn well chew a protein bar or something as well.

Point 2
Bodybuilder =/= Powerlifter.

stop using them interchangeably, they are apples and oranges.  Bodybuilders are all about size, definition, symmetry, Powerlifters are all about Performance aka being STRONG in squats, deadlifts and bench pressing (together all 3 carryover to A LOT) and then you have weightlifters who compete in the Snatch and Clean n Jerk.  To be fair though I think we would be hard pressed to see any REAL bodybuilders in the CF.  I mean i've read of 2 or 3 in the papers that were serving members who actually competed.  The rest are just guys who take probably to many supplements and rely on those instead of having proper nutrition.  Same goes for powerlifters and weightlifters...id be hard pressed to find more then 10-20 of each in the CF. 

I will point out that there are/have been plenty of powerlifters or olympic lifters (not many bodybuilders) that were/are in the military.  Usually these guys are not in the heavier weight classes though.
- Alex Viada (Marathoner/triathlete and powerlifter, bench presses 500+ RAW) 210-225'er
- Matt Kroczaleski (Cancer survivor, Pro powerlifter, NPC bodybuilder, and ex-Marine, 220lbs)
- Mike Tuchscherer (275'er with 900lbs raw squat, in the USAF, actually got in powerlifting through the AF when he joined the USAF academy powerlifting team)
To name a couple

Point 3

I honestly think the CF needs to put less emphasis on long distance running, if anything there should be more emphasis on sprints.  How many guys had to run 5-10km while deployed (and I don't mean for PT while out there) i mean for a tactical situation.  Odds are sprints, work capacity, strength (strength endurance, bodyweight strength and absolute strength) would be more valuable in those circumstances.

Point 4
I definitely think soldiers/sailors/airmen need to eat better, but this is not something we can enforce.

 

[Cadwr]

Point 4
I definitely think soldiers/sailors/airmen need to eat better, but this is not something we can enforce.

Why not?  We enforce such things as what you can wear, where you and your family will live, some standard of physical prowess, as well as such intangibles as ethics, attitude, character, etc...  Failure to meet or accept the standard on any of these is a potential ticket out the door.

So why not diet?  I don't see why a mandatory session with the CF H Svcs nutritionist couldn't go along with mandatory remedial PT.  They could ask to see your PT log and your food diary.

Edit - clarity

 

[Kat Stevens]

Holy crap, you're not breeding horses here, you're training and employing soldiers.  Just how much farther do you want to shove the big green machines snout up everyone's arses?  What next, mandatory Monday stool samples to ensure the proper mix of grass and grain?  Set a REALISTIC requirement, expect grown thinking men and women to adhere to it, and make them aware of the consequences if they fail to do so, end of.  Or we go full speed ahead with BLACKBRIAR and TREADSTONE, and crank the killbot factory up to maximum output.

 

[OldSolduer]

Holy crap, you're not breeding horses here, you're training and employing soldiers.  Just how much farther do you want to shove the big green machines snout up everyone's arses?  What next, mandatory Monday stool samples to ensure the proper mix of grass and grain?  Set a REALISTIC requirement, expect grown thinking men and women to adhere to it, and make them aware of the consequences if they fail to do so, end of.  Or we go full speed ahead with BLACKBRIAR and TREADSTONE, and crank the killbot factory up to maximum output.

I think education, by Health Promotions, is a great thing. We cannot babysit troops nor should we.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Point 4
I definitely think soldiers/sailors/airmen need to eat better, but this is not something we can enforce.

The kitchen in Petawawa stopped serving poutine every day.