Paying Compliments (Saluting)

[PAdm]

Laying your gabardine down over puddles and saluting ladies in the evening...  ???

In the evening or of the evening? Either works in the Kingston context.

 

[George Wallace]

Laying your gabardine down over puddles and saluting ladies of the evening...  ???

TFTFY

 

[jpjohnsn]

As long as we're discussing when to salute with the hand, can we take a moment and discuss how to salute? 

Contrary to popular thought, unless you are a wearing a peaked cap, the tip of the finger is not in line with the outside tip of the eyebrow or the arm of the glasses.  Everyone who has looked at the 201 forgets to read the last paragraph where it says:

When wearing headdress other than a cap with a peak, the second finger is 2 cm above and in line with the outer tip of the right eyebrow.

Back in the day when everything was in Imperial, dress regs said that non-peaked headdress was worn 1 inch above the eyebrows (wedges/glens/field service caps above the right eyebrow).  The drill manual said that, when saluting with headdress with no peak, the finger tip was 1 inch above and in line with the outer tip of the right eyebrow.  Essentially, your hand touches your headdress - regardless of whether or not you wear glasses.

Now, dress regs say berets, etc are worn 2.5 cms above the eyebrow and saluting is 2 cms above the eyebrow but this is because they've rounded all measurements to the nearest cm in the 201.  The pic that accompanies the instructions shows that your hand touches the bottom of your headdress if it has no peak.

Not crucial, earthshattering or even super-important - just a pet peeve...

 

[PMedMoe]

I should try this at Jack Astor's in Kingston with the waitresses sometime!  The talent there is worth a slap in the face haha  ;D

Or Moxie's!!

Earl's, Cactus Club, Joeys...the list goes on!  :nod:

Ah yes, what I call "cookie cutter" waitresses.  All interchangeable.  Robert Palmer's "Addicted to Love" video comes to mind.    :nod:

 

[PAdm]

Ah yes, what I call "cookie cutter" waitresses.  All interchangeable.  Robert Palmer's "Addicted to Love" video comes to mind.    :nod:

I miss Kingston........

 

[dimsum]

I miss Kingston........

Or Winnipeg.  Yes, I'm serious.

Long story short, a mutual friend of mine was a model scout for an agency based in Toronto.  He said that for Canadian models, most are recruited from Montreal (no surprise there) but Winnipeg was the 2nd-biggest recruiting source.  Must be the.....I have no idea.

 

[GreenMarine]

On the Ships Brow Officers are to be saluted (duhhh) but the traditional Mandate is to Salute all females in Civilian Clothing.

I didn't do the latter as the female was another serving NCM, buddy's GF/wife or Escort, or in my case my Mom or Wife (to which I need no brownie points from either.)


I wore my DEU to my old Cadet Sqn to which I was suppose to be part of the reviewing party but a miscue had me go to the stand (CO wanted me reviewing, his assistant didn't pass it on)
I Saluted, but had to be alittle harsh at the Cadet WO2 and Sgts thinking they were all that and above me. (Again the CO didn't mind.)

I think the best public display in Uniform was in 2004-5ish A bunch of us from the same unit were told to fly in Uniform...Long story short, it took each of us a hour to pass through security, are DEU's were done and some went though in their boxers...but it's funny how the public (especially Veterans ) stood up for the ill treatment we got from the Security Staff at Toronto Pearson.

 

[dangerboy]

I wore my DEU to my old Cadet Sqn to which I was suppose to be part of the reviewing party but a miscue had me go to the stand (CO wanted me reviewing, his assistant didn't pass it on)
I Saluted, but had to be alittle harsh at the Cadet WO2 and Sgts thinking they were all that and above me. (Again the CO didn't mind.)

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but if you are on the reviewing stand and saluting you are not initiating the salute.  You are returning the troops paying of compliments (normally done by an "Eyes Right" as they are marching by the podium).  I don't see why the Cadet WO2 and Sgts would think they were all that and above you, then again I was not there.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

On the Ships Brow Officers are to be saluted (duhhh) but the traditional Mandate is to Salute all females in Civilian Clothing.

What.  The.  Fawk?

I wore my DEU to my old Cadet Sqn to which I was suppose to be part of the reviewing party but a miscue had me go to the stand (CO wanted me reviewing, his assistant didn't pass it on)
I Saluted, but had to be alittle harsh at the Cadet WO2 and Sgts thinking they were all that and above me. (Again the CO didn't mind.)

If you can handle some honesty, my reaction to this part was "get over yourself".  Going to your old Cadet Sqn, as a Cpl, and you think you need to jack up some kids??

:

 

[Occam]

What.  The.  Fawk?

Naval tradition dictates that all females in civilian clothing (except those known to be serving NCMs) are to be saluted when crossing the brow.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wore my DEU to my old Cadet Sqn to which I was suppose to be part of the reviewing party but a miscue had me go to the stand (CO wanted me reviewing, his assistant didn't pass it on)
I Saluted, but had to be alittle harsh at the Cadet WO2 and Sgts thinking they were all that and above me. (Again the CO didn't mind.)

Nothing screams awesome like going back to your old cadet unit and confronting a bunch of kids.  I hope you made that WO2 and those sgts understand that you're a real soldier and out rank them.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Naval tradition dictates that all females in civilian clothing (except those known to be serving NCMs) are to be saluted when crossing the brow.

Ahh ok that makes (some) sense. I misunderstood, didn't get the "when crossing the brow" part.  SMRT!

 

[myself.only]

Nothing screams awesome sad, unprofessional and undermining the CO's Intent of having you as a guest like going back to your old cadet unit and confronting a bunch of kids. 

FTFY

I hope you made that WO2 and those sgts understand that you're a real soldier and out rank them.

Well I hope instead he'd make them think of emulating his example and joining the CAF, further stimulating their interest in the activities of their element.

Y'know it's odd, I've worked with many Cadet NCOs who lead from the front, take their responsibilities quite seriously and could never be accused of being meek, but I've personally never met any senior cadets that confuse the relationship between their current Cadet and CAF ranks... and yet from this forum I see it's a pervasive concern.
I will have to keep my eyes open for these creatures.

 

[myself.only]

Naval tradition dictates that all females in civilian clothing (except those known to be serving NCMs) are to be saluted when crossing the brow.

interesting.  The 201 used to have a similar option for paying compliments to civilian females... no mention of the brow though...

 

[myself.only]

If you can handle some honesty, my reaction to this part was "get over yourself".  Going to your old Cadet Sqn, as a Cpl, and you think you need to jack up some kids??

:

Well I'm not disagreeing with your assessment.


But I have to add, those "kids" are the product of 3+ years of mentorship, and training in leadership and CAF famil.  Furthermore, they're the ambassadors of the program and they should conduct themselves with that in mind. While I would expect all parties to treat each other respectfully and in a manner that reflects credit on their respective uniform, the Cadet WO2 and Sgts cannot use youth as an excuse for disrespecting any mbr of the CAF.

 

[Pusser]

Naval tradition dictates that all females in civilian clothing (except those known to be serving NCMs) are to be saluted when crossing the brow.

My research on the subject limits this to service wives only (as an important part of the Naval family).  Girlfriends and the young lady a sailor has just met in a foreign port did not traditionally qualify, but times are changing.

 

[Occam]

My research on the subject limits this to service wives only (as an important part of the Naval family).  Girlfriends and the young lady a sailor has just met in a foreign port did not traditionally qualify, but times are changing.

My experience standing Bos'n Mate and Quartermaster on the brow ranged from 1986 to 1997, more or less...and I'm pretty sure it was SSOs that laid it out as "all women in civvies" (less those known as NCMs).  It was in every BM/QM pack I'd ever seen.

 

[Pusser]

My experience standing Bos'n Mate and Quartermaster on the brow ranged from 1986 to 1997, more or less...and I'm pretty sure it was SSOs that laid it out as "all women in civvies" (less those known as NCMs).  It was in every BM/QM pack I'd ever seen.

I know that was/is the practice and I honestly can't remember what SSOs said then or even what it says now.  Unfortunately, brow packs and even SSOs are not always the products of thorough research when it comes to customs, tradition and history.  In fact, when it comes to these aspects, they are often simply a product of the prevailing opinion at the time, which is usually based on "somebody told me that someone told him ..."  What I can say is that the custom originated with service wives and was never originally intended to encompass all females in civvies.  Keep in mind that this also comes from a time when the only adult women you would ever see on a warship would be service wives.

One example of a custom that has changed as a result of misunderstanding is that of saluting when leaving a ship.  We all know of course that one salutes the quarterdeck when boarding a ship, but historically only officers are supposed to salute when leaving.  The reason is simply that you do not normally salute something that is behind you.  The officer; however, is not saluting the quarterdeck when leaving, but rather returning the salute of the Quartermaster and/or Boatswain's Mate.  Since the QM/BM are not saluting NCMs when leaving the ship, there is no reason for NCMs to salute on disembarking - yet it has become ingrained in the modern context and so has become the practice, despite the fact that there is no historical or customary reason to do so (and woe betide the young sailor now who gets caught not saluting by the Coxswain - a dissertation on the correct history on the practice probably won't do him much good).

 

[PAdm]

I believe it to be old school courtesy to salute a woman of acquaintance. I have saluted my aunt, the church ladies, etc.  I have no reference other than I believe it to be proper, polite, and akin to the good old days when respect was shown to such women. But hey, I still pull out the chair for any lady I am dining with.

 

[Lightguns]

Very old school, I salute the mayor, MPs, MLAs and funerals.  Females, I limit to formal occasions where a salute is permissible.  Always have.  I am not sure about now, but in 1980 in Cornwallis this was part of our instruction on the customs of the salute.  I am amazed that this is no longer common knowledge, 2 years ago myself and an MP cpl had to rouse members of all ranks from their cars for a funeral passing on base. 

A salute is the finest respect a soldier can provide to a someone that does not hold a commission.  That being said, I was taught by a grumpy ole PPCLI SgtMaj that saluting is not about the commission it is about your self-discipline.