Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land

[paracowboy]

Where?

uhhhhhh, Ireland? FYR? All over Africa? Central & South America? The Caribbean? Christians of various denominations cheerfully shooting, stabbing, burning other Christians. Is it because of their Faith? Nope. It's over money and power.

Religion began as a means whereby clever men used superstition to hold sway over their fellows: "Give me food, clothing...NO! SPECIAL clothing...and a fancy house to live in, or Ahura Mazda/Zeus/Mighty Ungawa/Insert Imaginary Friend Here will rain down fire on you."

Over time, that grew into the Religions we have today. Christianity used to sweep over the world with fire and sword, converting all in its' path. Feudalism was based entirely on Religion to enforce the Rule of Kings on serfdom. Then, it faced the Reformation where political power was forcibly removed from the Churches of the day. Now, they use Spiritual Extortion. "Give me money so I don't have to get a real job, and can keep God's house looking nice, or you'll burn forever in a lake of fire".

That's in the West, where we've seperated Church and State. Even so, Churches hold considerable sway. And they use it for political ends. Protestants still murder Catholics, and vice versa, in Northern Ireland. Is it because of Religion? Nope. It's over power and land. (Well, that's why it started, now its' over drugs and money.) Same-same the Balkans, Africa, etc.

And it's all a mask that evil men use to justify their crimies against humanity. Which is why joiquim's entire premise is faulty. It's not Religion. It's politics hiding behind Religion. Religion is just another tool greedy men use to enforce their will on others.

Which is why your analogy is flawed as well. Christianity in (most) of the West is no longer used to gain land and political power above the level of municipal government. Just to keep it's adherents tithing or contributing to the Offering Plate.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Religion began as a means whereby clever men used superstition to hold sway over their fellows: "Give me food, clothing...NO! SPECIAL clothing...and a fancy house to live in, or Ahura Mazda/Zeus/Mighty Ungawa/Insert Imaginary Friend Here will rain down fire on you."

I bet you are a laugh riot at the Regimental mass.  ;D

 

[Shec]

No one writes about the Jewish equivalent of Jihad. This is an army forum, so I think it is appropriate to discuss religion when it applies to war.

The Jew call it milchemet mitzvah, hebrew for mandatory war. The article below explains the distinction between it and milchemet reshut, optional war. A few selected passages (text englicized for clarity):

According to all, an example of a mandatory war is conquering the land of Israel, as was done by Joshua after the exodus from Egypt, while an example of an optional war is extending the borders of the land of Israel as done by king David.

After stating that in battle one should not have fear, the Bible then proceeds to discuss who is exempt from war. Interestingly, the Bible then gives an exemption to battle to those who are scared (this refers to one who is worried about their sins) (...) Other people that are exempted from war are those who recently married, planted a vineyard, or built a new house. (...) The Gemara clarifies that the exemptions to battle only apply to an optional war. However, in a mandatory war, even a bride and groom are obligated to “fight”.

However, there is an argument in the Gemara regarding whether an attack on an enemy nation to reduce their future threat is considered an optional or a mandatory war. (...) Based on this, it would seem that a pre-emptive war like the Six-day war, where it was clear that opposing troops were ready to attack Israel, would be considered a mandatory war.

Note: the Gemara is a part of the Talmud that clarifies the Jewish law. It was written in the 4th and 5th century.

The article also discusses the need to offer peace to an ennemy before attacking him, how to treat prisoners and whether women are obligated to fight. To understand these rules, you must know that the land of Israel, as cartographed in Genesis, includes the current Israel, the west bank, Southern Lebanon, the Golan, and Eastern parts of Syrian and Jordan. It does not include the Negev desert or Eilat. The status of Gaza is vague. I link a map below.

The sum of milchenet mitzvah and jihad is a war that will end only with the military destruction of one side. And since both religions are told to never surrender, it will be ugly. Politics, needless to say, will play an important role but as an accessory.

http://www.torahmitzion.org/eng/resources/show.asp?id=231
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/maps/img/002.jpg

The only problem with your thesis, which rests on your reference to the Gemara, is that you over look the other equally important element of the Talmud, the Mishnah.   Both are studied in tandem by Talmudic scholars who devote their lives to comparing,  contrasting, intepreting, and arguing the two. 

It is in the earlier Mishnah that  the concept of mikchenet mitzvah is  raised.  It also concludes that ideas of  holy war only brought devastation to the Jewish people as had been recently experienced in the  great Revolt of 66 C.E. and the Bar Kokhba Rebellion of 132 C.E.

So you might want to:

(1) Reference the correct original source,
(2) Recognize that the interpretation of either source is not an exercise that is exclusive of the other source,
(3) Spend a bit more time, like say 10-20 years, in studying them rather than relying on one internet reference which presents only one spin on a 2,000 year old and never-ending scholarly debate.   

 

[Infanteer]

So you might want to:

(1) Reference the correct original source,
(2) Recognize that the interpretation of either source is not an exercise that is exclusive of the other source,
(3) Spend a bit more time, like say 10-20 years, in studying them rather than relying on one internet reference which presents only one spin on a 2,000 year old and never-ending scholarly debate.

Damn, can you say "owned"....

 

[Shec]

owned 

 

[GAP]

Danish court rejects Prophet cartoons case against newspaper
JAN M. OLSEN Associated Press
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061026.wcartoons1026/BNStory/International/home

COPENHAGEN — A Danish court on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit filed by seven Muslim organizations against the newspaper that first published a dozen cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed that triggered massive protest in the Islamic world earlier this year.

The City Court in Aarhus said it could not be ruled out that some Muslims had been offended by the 12 drawings printed in Jyllands-Posten, but said there was no reason to assume that the cartoons were meant to “belittle Muslims.”

The newspaper published the cartoons on Sept. 30, 2005 with an accompanying text saying it was challenging a perceived self-censorship among artists afraid to offend Islam.

The caricatures were reprinted in European papers in January and February, fuelling a fury of protests in the Islamic world. Some turned violent, with protesters killed in Libya and Afghanistan and several European embassies attacked.

Islamic law forbids any depiction of the prophet, even positive ones, to prevent idolatry.

“It cannot be ruled out that the drawings have offended some Muslims' honour, but there is no basis to assume that the drawings are, or were conceived as, insulting or that the purpose of the drawings was to present opinions that can belittle Muslims,” the court said in its ruling.

The seven Muslim groups filed the defamation lawsuit against the paper in March, after Denmark's top prosecutor declined to press criminal charges, saying the drawings did not violate laws against racism or blasphemy.

The plaintiffs, who claimed to have the backing of 20 more Islamic organizations in the Scandinavian country, had sought about $17,000 in damages from Jyllands-Posten editor-in-chief Carsten Juste and culture editor Flemming Rose, who supervised the cartoon project.

The lawsuit said the cartoons depict Mohammed “as belligerent, oppressing women, criminal, crazy and unintelligent, and a connection is made between the Prophet and war and terror.”
More on link

 

[George Wallace]

Makes me wonder where these groups would have "FUNNELED" that $17,000.