Pedophile fears 'jail justice'

[ixium]

Sure is a money issue to me. I'd rather my tax dollar go towards Child Care, strengthening the CF, and a variety of other great things to do with my tax dollars. Morality? How do you speak of morales for someone who obviously has none? That's what got him in this bind in the first place no?

Well then, lets bring society down to criminals level of morality. Wait, that makes no sense, silly me!

Nope I'm not saying that at all. But if you look at it from a truly dark point of you, if you're dead, you're dead. Nothing comes afterwards for YOU. You rape, sexually assault or even attempt to do so... you leave a lasting effect, which would cause the victims to affect someone elese the vicious cycle continues...

Just now we're starting to look at a truely dark point? You're practically sending this man to his death by another convicted fellon. We're well past the dark points already.

You're contradicting yourself here man. No one is advocating for the death sentence... however, if they've perished, they won't be hurting anyone else now would they? Sure it won't lessen the trauma for the victims, but at least they can breath a bit easier knowing that the person who did this to them won't be doing it to anyone else... or them EVER again.

If someone like him was put into a prison, chances are hes going to get hurt. Badly. To the point where he'll likely be killed. You place him there knowing full well what is going to happen. It's like throwing someone into a snake pit and then saying 'well they might not have bitten and poisoned him.'

I'll restrict my death penalty remarks to that thread, and stop hijacking this one.

My comments weren't to debate capital punishment, but were to point out the fact that as it is right now by law, Canada doesn't support sending people to their deaths for their crimes.

 

[armyvern]

...
My comments weren't to debate capital punishment, but were to point out the fact that as it is right now by law, Canada doesn't support sending people to their deaths for their crimes.
...

Roy's comments on the death penalty were in response to my post, not yours.

And my comment was directed at Tommy and his "Darwinism" insinuation that he wasn't saying kill the guy, rather that he was saying "put him in general and let Darwinism take it's course" when he is fully aware what that would lead to.

 

[medaid]

ixium, this is my last response to your points. You're just not getting it. We can sit here and argue morality all we want, and neither one of us will be right. I've accepted that through my years of studying and exposure to the LE world, that no two LEOs have the same point of view on crime, but hell most of us will agree that people like that sickens us.  They will get their just dessert.

So dark the con of man... eh?

 

[Thompson_JM]

Someone else besides a defense lawyer is now a scumbag because they don't mind seeing their tax dollars go towards "babysitting" this scum?

You are right the frig out of it...


...You are a troll...

I think no matter what, ultimately you and I are going to end up having to agree to disagree...

However, that being said...

Upon reading, and re-reading, and re-re-re-reading you post, and my previous ones, I have allowed personal feeling from my more base instincts to allow my judgement to be clouded... And as such my posts in this thread are reflecting that... I am not making a case in a clear or concise manner, and am speaking before routing said speech through the brain….

What would I like to see happen to some of these people? Well I’ve made those statements clear already. What would actually be best for society? Obviously something less severe and more moderate. I still stand by my personal belief that Rapists, Child Molesters and their ilk are the worst of society and serve no real purpose on earth other then to make it worse. But I’ll leave it at that. As far as defence lawyers, and such, you are right…. They do serve a purpose. Ying/Yang if you will… to have peace there must be conflict, to have love there must be hate, and to have good, there must be evil… And in this Country, under the Rights we have, to have a Prosecution, one must have a Defence. And Presumed Innocence.

So I Apologize for allowing my personal feelings dictate my post, I will attempt to refrain from posting such things in the future and simply echo Medtech’s point that those sickos will get what is coming to them eventually…

As much as I want to carry on this debate, I don’t think I’m in the right mindset for it right now, and am in far too dark a place at the moment to carry on objectively, and corollary to that, it is also somewhat out of my Arcs, and all my comments are going to be opinion based.


      Regards,
              Tommy

Ps. I don’t think I’m a troll… just wasn’t thinking before posting…. And for what it is worth Armyvern, there ARE people in our legal/justice system with much worse school of thought then I. (I’m really not that bad… like I said, I just forgot to engage the thought to speech process… and out came the really dark thoughts... However, I am sure you have your opinion of me, and Im not going to try and change that since, really I cant...)

Final thought… if Hypothetically I were a member of the legal system, (in my case the Law Enforcement side since I do hope to end up there one day) Regardless of personal feelings, I would still do my job professionally, as I do within the military. Because as much as someone might be a slimeball, if I am in that position, it is my duty to be impartial on a professional level… and do the job required. But on my own time I can still think how I wish. (I will just find more intelligent ways to post my feelings should I choose to do so in the future.)

Cheers.

 

[armyvern]

Rest assured that your feelings are not far off from those of myself.

It's your insulting of others with the "scumbag" label or "not worth the money they make" if their feelings should happen to contradict yours that I have issues with.

Your opinions are valid -- that doesn't make others' opinions worthless, or them scum, as you indicted.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Rest assured that your feelings are not far off from those of myself.

It's your insulting of others with the "scumbag" label or "not worth the money they make" if their feelings should happen to contradict yours that I have issues with.

Your opinions are valid -- that doesn't make others' opinions worthless, or them scum, as you indicted.

Like i said. I apologize for venting.  its been a rough week personally for me, I wont go into details, but needless to say ive had a few new and rather unpleasant experiances.. but I digress.. I should have the common sense to keep my cool on here and not insult on a personal level...

I simply get very irritated when the rights of convicted criminals come before those of the victims.

Cheers

 

[armyvern]

Believe you me, I've had a very unpleasant week too.

I'm not understanding where you are coming from on the rights of convicted criminals in this case though. He's guilty. He's in jail.

What right are you talking about? The right for us to knowingly place him in general pop knowing full well what that would lead to? Or his right to try NOT to have that happen to him? Anybody would fight against such a thing knowing it would possibly lead to their death. That's called survival.

I just don't see how this is trampling on the rights of victims ... he's in jail. Not that I consider jail to be "harsh" by any standard of the imagination for the turd ... but he is there; he isn't free -- he's been convicted.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Believe you me, I've had a very unpleasant week too.

I'm not understanding where you are coming from on the rights of convicted criminals in this case though. He's guilty. He's in jail.

What right are you talking about? The right for us to knowingly place him in general pop knowing full well what that would lead to? Or his right to try NOT to have that happen to him? Anybody would fight against such a thing knowing it would possibly lead to their death. That's called survival.

I just don't see how this is trampling on the rights of victims ... he's in jail. Not that I consider jail to be "harsh" by any standard of the imagination for the turd ... but he is there; he isn't free -- he's been convicted.

Sorry, Allow me to elaborate, I ment in general when that occurs... in this case I would like to see him thrown into general population... but... I do know that its morally wrong to do so, knowing what would happen....
what angered me was that the lawyer was arguing against Prison as a whole... and saying he should be sent to a psychiatric hospital, which is going to be a bit more comfortable i would imagine..

if he argued his client should be in isolation in prison that wouldnt bother me. it was that his lawyer was saying his client was scared of going to jail which made me think he was attempting to weasel out of jail time in favour of confinement in a more comfortable location. And then well.. I kinda flew off the handle from there.....

I'm blameing the Season and a lack of CTO Days due to work needing to get done here at the office.... its all good though... two more days and im on leave for two glorious weeks..... I can deal with all my other problems in 2008. failing that, a little moose milk over the holidays never hurt 

 

[armyvern]

if he argued his client should be in isolation in prison that wouldnt bother me. it was that his lawyer was saying his client was scared of going to jail which made me think he was attempting to weasel out of jail time in favour of confinement in a more comfortable location. And then well.. I kinda flew off the handle from there.....

Thanks for the clarification. 

But, I dunno -- I still think that if I were this molestor -- I'd be scared of going to jail too!!

He knows what's in store for him, as does his lawyer ... looking for more comfortable digs (I suspect) is the least of their worries, rather I suspect he was just doing his utmost to avoid heading to that place where we are all aware he is at a high risk of 'being dealt with appropriately by his fellow cons.'

 

[Thompson_JM]

lol touche.

i think to me i got po-ed with him trying to avoid prison for a mental hospital rather then argue for isolation in the prison itself... but then again.. its not like these guys (the criminal i mean) really have a well functioning moral compass in the first place.

 

[Rayman]

lol touche.

i think to me i got po-ed with him trying to avoid prison for a mental hospital rather then argue for isolation in the prison itself... but then again.. its not like these guys (the criminal i mean) really have a well functioning moral compass in the first place.

I agree with that. He and other criminals who know right from wrong chose to commit the crimes they did. They should be all punished in my opinion. He is just trying to use a diagnosed behavioural condition as leverage so he doesnt have to go to jail. If he didnt want to go to jail he shouldnt have done what he did in the first place. Wonder if he ever contemplated that one? 

 

[Roy Harding]

I agree with that. He and other criminals who know right from wrong chose to commit the crimes they did. They should be all punished in my opinion. He is just trying to use a diagnosed behavioural condition as leverage so he doesnt have to go to jail. If he didnt want to go to jail he shouldnt have done what he did in the first place. Wonder if he ever contemplated that one? 

I'm certainly not on the side of the "perp", here - nor am I making excuses for his behaviour.

BUT - it is a fact that the prospect of future punishment does NOT enter into the mind of most "deviant" folk (or "merely" violent folk, for that matter).  Whether one "wants" to go to jail or not is rarely a consideration for most folk committing a criminal act.

Which brings me back to whether "deterrent" should be a consideration in "criminal justice". 

But I made a solemn promise to Vern - and in THIS case, "the prospect of future punishment" is enough to make me shut up.

 

[Rayman]

I'm certainly not on the side of the "perp", here - nor am I making excuses for his behaviour.

BUT - it is a fact that the prospect of future punishment does NOT enter into the mind of most "deviant" folk (or "merely" violent folk, for that matter).   Whether one "wants" to go to jail or not is rarely a consideration for most folk committing a criminal act.

Which brings me back to whether "deterrent" should be a consideration in "criminal justice". 

But I made a solemn promise to Vern - and in THIS case, "the prospect of future punishment" is enough to make me shut up.

I guess you answered my question then. If the thought of being caught and punished isnt deterrent enough you may be on to something about there possibly being a harsher means of deterring someone from doing something. Though im sure Vern and others wont want to hear discussion on that.

 

[armyvern]

I guess you answered my question then. If the thought of being caught and punished isnt deterrent enough you may be on to something about there possibly being a harsher means of deterring someone from doing something. Though im sure Vern and others wont want to hear discussion on that.

As pointed out already ... there's another thread on that already running.

AND ... just in case you missed it (and obviously you have) ... I'm all for the death penalty, but, also as previously noted, this guy didn't kill anyone -- so even if we had it in this country ... he wouldn't be subject to it.

Nice of you to presume to know my thoughts though.  :

 

[Roy Harding]

I guess you answered my question then. If the thought of being caught and punished isnt deterrent enough you may be on to something about there possibly being a harsher means of deterring someone from doing something. Though im sure Vern and others wont want to hear discussion on that.

Actually - for most "serious" crimes, I don't believe there exists a "deterrent".  "Deterrence" MAY work for "minor" crimes - but I'm not sure.

I'm a believer in properly orchestrated "natural justice" - deterrence has nothing to do with it; rightful vengeance retribution has EVERYTHING to do with it.

In deference to Vern and others, we can start our own thread - although I do believe I posted a link to such a thread earlier.

Edited to add:  Vern was posting as I was typing.

 

[eurowing]

Just look at all the people that cheat.  The cost of a divorce apparently isn't a deterrent either.  The pleasure must be worth the risk of the future "punishment" of normal folk too.  


Vern, I can't find that thread about the teacher?  That has been water cooler talk at work too.

 

[armyvern]

...
Vern, I can't find that thread about the teacher?  That has been water cooler talk at work too.
...

Wait one, over.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Grave

 

[armyvern]

Grave

Well ... so it is!! No wonder I couldn't find it! 


;D

 

[sober_ruski]

yeah, but who's bringing cheese?  ;D