Pension contributions to increase to 50:50

[garb811]

Force Reduction Plan.  Essentially the Govt offered buyouts to folks to reduce the number of CF personnel.  It took a tremendous amount of institutional knowledge out of the CF that some argue took years some trades are still trying to recover from.

Fixed that for you.

In my old trade it was hoped that they might see 100-120 of the dead wood take the golden handshake (FRP).  To their horror, the dead wood didn't take the bait because they mostly knew they could not find good jobs easily in the real world.  What happened, was upwards of 450+ people applied and were subsequently released.  The vast majority were the really good people they could not afford to lose.  It was a body blow that hurt them badly.  That, was the lesson.

Yup and it still hurts to be honest.

 

[ARMY_101]

Great developments on the discussion. Most CF members I know are savvy enough to take care of investing as they see fit, if they're not already invested in the market in some form.

Poll added.

 

[MJP]

Fixed that for you.
Yup and it still hurts to be honest.

While I admit that FRP has hurt many trades and the CF in general, I hardly find it the cause of our current woes.  Especially considering we are hitting the 20 year mark after FRP.  Rather stovepiping, empire building and lack of proper management within certain trades seems to be the a larger contributor to our current problems(among others).  FRP may have play a part but it is hardly the largest boogieman in the closet.  To continue to blame it simply says to me that certain organizations would rather blame the past rather than critique themselves and their current practices. 

Maybe you have a concrete example of how the MP trade is still reeling from something that happened 2 decades ago? 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Maybe you have a concrete example of how the MP trade is still reeling from something that happened 2 decades ago?

From what I saw at my base at the time, there were several very bright, capable outstanding MP's who left the trade and the CF for greener pastures.  These same people would have contributed to the betterment of the trade and by today would have been in senior ranks and positions where their full capabilities would have been and would possibly still be making a positive impact.

Concrete example?  How about comparing what happened to the Blue Jays in the mid 90's when several really talented, integral members of the team were traded away after 2 WS wins?  The team was gutted and have not played at that level of excellence since.  That's about as concrete as an example you're going to be able to give on anything with personnel losses, unless someone in particular goes on to singly handed find a cure for cancer in some other organization instead of yours.  It's all what could have been and now isn't.

 

[MJP]

From what I saw at my base at the time, there were several very bright, capable outstanding MP's who left the trade and the CF for greener pastures.  These same people would have contributed to the betterment of the trade and by today would have been in senior ranks and positions where their full capabilities would have been and would possibly still be making a positive impact.

Concrete example?  How about comparing what happened to the Blue Jays in the mid 90's when several really talented, integral members of the team were traded away after 2 WS wins?  The team was gutted and have not played at that level of excellence since.  That's about as concrete as an example you're going to be able to give on anything with personnel losses, unless someone in particular goes on to singly handed find a cure for cancer in some other organization instead of yours.  It's all what could have been and now isn't.

I am not doubting that we lost some great people.  FRP is a Organizational Behaviourists dream case study in giving incentives for the wrong thing targetting the wrong people.    I am saying that too continue to make it the boogie man it is 20 years later tells me allot about the orgs that are using it as a crutch.  To say we are today gutted by lack of good leadership because of FRP stinks to high heaven to me.  It seems you and Garb are saying that instead of cutting out dead wood and making tough personnel decisions like leaders do,  they would rather say "Ok FRP happened and you are the best of the worst that was left over so we will keep you around in a position of influence".  I would like to think that isn't the case and that our woes are built upon a litany of organizational flaws, tempo and personality driven policies (FRP being only one small part of the puzzle).

Regardless this has nothing to do with the pension.  We can move to PM or if the mods want to split it off.

 

[4Feathers]

What is happening now is not like the 90's. We are now dealing with the recommendations of strat review, and death by a thousand cuts. It coincided with the end of the "combat mission" in the STan. There are more cuts a coming and the line up at the release section is getting longer. Sure we have it better than some occupations in the private sector, but we sure deserve it based on the sacrifices we make.  Change is hard to accept, especially when it is negative after negative change.

 

[ARMY_101]

Update with the specific per-year increases:

CANFORGEN 250/12 CMP 117/12 211435Z DEC 12

PENSION CONTRIBUTION RATES FOR MEMBERS OF THE PART 1 CF PENSION PLAN (FULL TIME) FOR CALENDAR YEARS 2013-2015

> > UNCLASSIFIED

> > REF: CANFORGEN 238/12 CMP 113/12 121812Z DEC 12 <http://vcds-dev.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2012/238-12_e.asp>

> > 1. FURTHER TO REF, THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ADVISE CF MEMBERS OF THE PENSION CONTRIBUTION RATES AS ANNOUNCED BY TREASURY BOARD, TO TAKE EFFECT 1 JAN 13 FOR CALENDAR YEARS 2013-2015

> > 2. REG AND RES F MEMBERS WHO CONTRIBUTE TO THE FULL-TIME PENSION PLAN (CFSA PART I) WILL PAY:

> > 3. FOR 2013, 6 POINT 85 PERCENT ON EARNINGS UP TO THE MAXIMUM COVERED BY THE CANADA/QUEBEC PENSION PLAN (C/QPP) AND 9 POINT 2 PERCENT ON EARNINGS OVER THE MAXIMUM COVERED BY C/QPP. THIS REPRESENTS AN INCREASE OF POINT 65 PERCENT AND POINT 6 PERCENT RESPECTIVELY. THE MAXIMUM EARNINGS COVERED BY C/QPP FOR 2013 WILL BE 51,100 DOLLARS

> > 4. RATES FOR 2014 WILL BE 7 POINT 5 PERCENT UP TO THE C/QPP MAXIMUM AND 9 POINT 8 PERCENT ON EARNINGS ABOVE THE MAXIMUM

> > 5. FOR 2015 THE RATES WILL BE 8 POINT 15 PERCENT UP TO THE C/QPP MAXIMUM AND 10 POINT 4 PERCENT ON EARNINGS ABOVE THE MAXIMUM

> > 6. BY WAY OF ILLUSTRATION, A MEMBER EARNING 60,000 DOLLARS WILL PAY 6 POINT 85 PERCENT ON EARNINGS TO A MAXIMUM OF 51,100 DOLLARS AND 9 POINT 2 PERCENT ON THE REMAINING 9,900 DOLLARS OF EARNINGS. THIS MEMBER WOULD SEE A MONTHLY INCREASE OF 30 DOLLARS 31 CENTS IN CONTRIBUTIONS OVER 2012 CONTRIBUTIONS

> > 7. THESE RATES WILL BE APPLIED ON THE 15 JAN 13 PAY
> > 8. THIS ADJUSTMENT DOES NOT AFFECT CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CF PART-TIME PENSION PLAN (RES F PLAN CFSA PART 1.1) WHICH WILL REMAIN AT 5 POINT 2 PERCENT OF PENSIONABLE EARNINGS
> > 9. FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT CF PENSION PLAN ARRANGEMENTS, INCLUDING CONTRIBUTION RATES, CONSULT THE DPSP WEBSITE AS FOLLOWS: HTTP://WWW.CMP-CPM.FORCES.GC.CA/DGCB-DGRAS/PS/PEN/INDEX-ENG.ASP QUESTIONS MAY BE DIRECTED BY EMAIL TO: (PLUS SIGN)DPSP.PENSION.DPPS(AT SIGN)FORCES.GC.CA <mailto:+dpsp.pension.dpps@forces.gc.ca>
> > 10. SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH, CMP

 

[Jay4th]

How much of an increase is that this yr?

 

[ARMY_101]

How much of an increase is that this yr?

...

. BY WAY OF ILLUSTRATION, A MEMBER EARNING 60,000 DOLLARS WILL PAY 6 POINT 85 PERCENT ON EARNINGS TO A MAXIMUM OF 51,100 DOLLARS AND 9 POINT 2 PERCENT ON THE REMAINING 9,900 DOLLARS OF EARNINGS. THIS MEMBER WOULD SEE A MONTHLY INCREASE OF 30 DOLLARS 31 CENTS IN CONTRIBUTIONS OVER 2012 CONTRIBUTIONS

 

[TCM621]

Oh yeah deja vu, it's the end times all over again.  If they were so foolish to offer an FRP like the first one, they'd have mass casuaties from the slow ones being run over in the rush to the exits.

And like last time, the best and brightest will be the first out of the door. The only people who stay will be the ones who can't get, or don't want, other good jobs.

The only good thing I got going for me,  is that I saw the turn around so I know it can get better. Those people who joined in the last ten years are going to get a shock.

 

[TCM621]

Great developments on the discussion. Most CF members I know are savvy enough to take care of investing as they see fit, if they're not already invested in the market in some form.

Poll added.

You must know a whole different type of CF member than I have met in my career. For every CF member who has control over his money and is making money on solid investments, You have 2 members who think leased trucks and snow mobiles are good investments, 1 who is on his third wife and one who is somewhere in the middle.

 

[dangerboy]

And like last time, the best and brightest will be the first out of the door. The only people who stay will be the ones who can't get, or don't want, other good jobs.

Or the ones that are not in it for the pay, but believe in what they do and have a desire to serve Canada.

 

[OldSolduer]

Or the ones that are not in it for the pay, but believe in what they do and have a desire to serve Canada.

Agreed. It's not always about the money, right Danger?

 

[McG]

Putting aside the fact that the only people talking about a new FRP is the poor-us crowd …

And like last time, the best and brightest will be the first out of the door. The only people who stay will be the ones who … don't want, other good jobs.

Some how wanting to be in the CF is mutually exclusive of being more than the dredges of our organization?  I assume that I have misread your intent.  But if I did read you right, then don't let the door hot you on the way out.