PERs : All issues questions...2018-current

[dapaterson]

An acring position (as in when your boss is away, you fill in for him) doesn't belong to section 3, but certainly does in Section 5.

Depends.  If you backfill for your boss for several months, it should be in part 3 as well, so the members of the board can say "Whoa, this dudette or dude was working at what would normally be the next rank level"; with the 9 line limit, sometimes details like that can get lost in from the narrative.

 

[Lumber]

It can go in section 3, and again in either 4 or 5 (and potentially in 4 AND 5). Basically, if he just did it once, it should go in section 4, but if it is something he is regularly relied upon to do, it can go in section 5. I mean, really you can argue it either way, it's just in how you word it.

Section 3:
Platoon 2ic (10), A/CSM (2)

Seciton 4:
"Performed duties of A/CSM in their absence; adeptly manged numerous complex disciplinary issues."

Section 5:
"Performs often as A/CSM in their absence, providing Command with regular SITREPS on coy personnel; Command is well informed of the status of the coy, and is able to accurately plan and coordinate unit trg and exercises. "

Or something like that.

 

[Mediman14]

A/CSM on three separate occasions, for a total of close to 1 month. That is two ranks above what I currently am, but yet I am developing. Four years in rank.

 

[IceBlue]

It can go in section 3, and again in either 4 or 5 (and potentially in 4 AND 5). Basically, if he just did it once, it should go in section 4, but if it is something he is regularly relied upon to do, it can go in section 5. I mean, really you can argue it either way, it's just in how you word it.

Section 3:
Platoon 2ic (10), A/CSM (2)

Seciton 4:
"Performed duties of A/CSM in their absence; adeptly manged numerous complex disciplinary issues."

Section 5:
"Performs often as A/CSM in their absence, providing Command with regular SITREPS on coy personnel; Command is well informed of the status of the coy, and is able to accurately plan and coordinate unit trg and exercises. "

Or something like that.

I read that as ineptly managed, which describes many people.

;D

 

[TCM621]

Here I go again!!!
  Every year for the last 4 years, my PER had been written by a officer who has never did any PER's. I have requested to meet common ground 3 out of the 4 years, and have gotten what I deserved with some compromising involved. It gets very frustrating having to face this over and over again!
  I have been delegated on three separate occasions as A/CSM for a total of 1 month, received emails stating - "Good Job, etc". Somehow, those never make it on my PER. When asked, The response I got " I didn't think it mattered because you are not an CSM". One would think, this would be great under section 5 (Potential).

Hey, my potential went down despite being in my third year of an A/ job and being selected for promotion off last year's Per. Somehow my potential is less this year than last year. I have yet to see any changes that positively affect the member vice the people writing it.

 

[Mediman14]

I witness today a Nursing Officer telling a Cpl that her MH illness was a negative point in her PER. Because the Cpl did not tell the officer her MH struggles, it showed a flaw in her character. I was pissed at the officer and waited till the Cpl had left before I strongly expressed my thought on that approach. Turns out that I was also wrong, at least according to a Nursing Officer.
  Imagine, this is suppose to be a Medical Professional. I can't imagine what the NO thinks about other severely injured MH Mbrs.

 

[Mediman14]

I should also add to my last, receiving a good job by an email for doing a task is apparently not the same thing as a Bravo Zulu (BZ). According to the English dictionary it is the same, only one is more formal than the other.

 

[Lumber]

If found that we hire NOs and MOs for their technical/medical skill, and not for their leadership skill. I can't believe the lack of basic management, administration and leadership accumen I've seen from medical det commanders.

I've literally had to quote to them their own medical leave policy to prove to them they were wrong about how much sick leave they could grant.

 

[garb811]

I witness today a Nursing Officer telling a Cpl that her MH illness was a negative point in her PER. Because the Cpl did not tell the officer her MH struggles, it showed a flaw in her character. I was pissed at the officer and waited till the Cpl had left before I strongly expressed my thought on that approach. Turns out that I was also wrong, at least according to a Nursing Officer.
  Imagine, this is suppose to be a Medical Professional. I can't imagine what the NO thinks about other severely injured MH Mbrs.

If the NO is the members chain of command, which it reads like the NO is since the NO didn’t have access to her medical file to access that info directly, the NO has no more right to that information than I would as a non-MH supervisor. Your medical category or MELs also cannot be used in that manner to directly justify a lower score on a PER simply because the supervisor wasn’t told the specifics of the medical problem.

The Cpl should request a meeting with her next level in the CoC in a further attempt at informal resolution and specifically address that being brought up.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

If found that we hire NOs and MOs for their technical/medical skill, and not for their leadership skill. I can't believe the lack of basic management, administration and leadership accumen I've seen from medical det commanders.

I've literally had to quote to them their own medical leave policy to prove to them they were wrong about how much sick leave they could grant.

Lumber: This is not limited to the military. Civilian doctors and most nurses are totally useless at basic management or administration ... and don't even get me started on their leadership.

I should know: Two doctors in my immediate family.  ;D

 

[brihard]

Lumber: This is not limited to the military. Civilian doctors and most nurses are totally useless at basic management or administration ... and don't even get me started on their leadership.

I should know: Two doctors in my immediate family.  ;D

The world, generally, needs platoon warrants. In pretty much any enterprise or profession, you need some cranky, snarly people who've seen and dealt with way too much stupid BS and who have developed an innate ability to simply be effective and take care of stuff. Who can tactfully but firmly deal with superiors, and who can inspire, motivate, discipline, break down, mentor, and build up subordinates without breaking stride.

I think part of the problem is that in the CAF must necessarily use rank for pay grades, and consequently assigns further leadership / managerial tasks to people who wear a rank simply out of necessity to pay them equitably.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I fully agree, Brihard.

Perhaps you remember the days when Padres, while wearing an officer cut uniform and belonging to the officer's mess, did not wear any rank on their uniforms, and worked on the principle that they "assumed" the rank of whomever they were talking to - so they would never be senior or subordinate to anyone in their "flock", so to speak.

So here's an interesting question. Is there any real requirement, in the CAF, for the NO or MO to actually hold a rank, other than being considered officers? I mean, if we are not going to train them properly or expect them to assume leadership, then does specific rank really matter or could we give them a separate pay scale (which they already have anyway) without tying it to a rank structure?

I don't know the answer, I am just musing here.

 

[Mediman14]

I have to agree that there is no leadership training given to NO's and MO's, however, with many things the CAF get wrong, I don't how the CAF can expect leadership coming with a person who has degree. A degree doesn't make you into a leader.
I have worked with some awesome NO's and MO's who are great at their jobs but what makes them great is that they listen to those who experience such as Warrant or Sgt. Then you have those who "show" or pretend to listen but really don't, the automatic attitude of I'm a officer therefore I am better and know better than you. That is what I refer to as because you have a degree, it doesn't make you a leader.

There is a place in the CAF for NO's, only in the medical aspect with regards to patient care. Otherwise the rest of the military administration should be left to others.

Given all that, is the CAF setting up some of our officers for failure? Where is the accountability? What is Accountability?

 

[mc876898]

Is it normal for a PER to be significantly worse than the last one?

My last year's PER was an immediate with 11 Mastered / 5 Exceeded Standard.
The one I just got was a ready with most circles on skilled.

Does the person writing the PER need to justify why they are severely lowering my scores?

 

[PuckChaser]

No,  because they technically should have never seen last year's scores so how would they know they are lower?

 

[211RadOp]

The justification for your scores would be in your PDRs you received throughout the year.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is it normal for a PER to be significantly worse than the last one?

My last year's PER was an immediate with 11 Mastered / 5 Exceeded Standard.
The one I just got was a ready with most circles on skilled.

Does the person writing the PER need to justify why they are severely lowering my scores?

Its not that they have to justify the lowering of your scores, its that author of that PER needs to be able to provide concrete examples and justification of all scores; good, bad, improvement or decline.

They may never be called on to express that justification but they should have it readily available.

Your PDR to PER cycle the preferred method. 

I run my sections as follows:

Q1:  You should have recently received your PER from the last year and now I am issuing a PDR Pt 1, 2;
Q2:  You submit a PDR Pt 3 and 4 to us we use this in combination with our own material and issue you a Pt 5;
Q3:  You submit a PDR Pt 3 and 4 to us we use this in combination with our own material and issue you a Pt 5;
Q4:  All of the above and all our material is combined to create and issue you a PER. **This phase is usually prescribed by command**

A caveat is that in the RCN we also keep Div Notes. These are frequently updated on the performance of a sailor and reviewed annually. 

Then the cycle starts again. 

A PER should never be a surprise.  If you read your PDRs you should have a good idea of where you are going to end up.  Also a PDR also contain Pt 5c.  This is the action plan.  Upon reading it should involve a discussion with you and your superior(s) about how you and they will help you over come any areas for development you have.

 

[mc876898]

If it makes any difference, it was a tour PER for a 7 month tour.
I only received one PDR half-way through the tour with only a single point to improve on.
The part that ticks me off the most was that the person who wrote it is not even deployed anymore so I can't discuss it with them. They wrote my PER and then immediately popped smoke.

 

[MJP]

If it makes any difference, it was a tour PER for a 7 month tour.
I only received one PDR half-way through the tour with only a single point to improve on.
The part that ticks me off the most was that the person who wrote it is not even deployed anymore so I can't discuss it with them. They wrote my PER and then immediately popped smoke.

The best way to deal with this is to redress the PER as you are likely past the informal route that you can take overseas.  Having seen a number of them over the years the best redresses always addresses what the mbr wanted for all 16 AFs & 6 PFs with substantiation for each one.  That and honest self assessment are key to building a strong redress that will see success.  Ones that failed often failed to consider personal actions, failings or weaknesses. 

 

[Mediman14]

My frustration with the PER process or the fairness continues. I seen a new Sgt (3 months in rank) with half of that on Sick leave received a high ready on their PER. One bubble short of an MOI. How is that possible? I always knew that most of the system was a "who you know" system for some people. I asked to see their PDR that was done, under section 5B, all it said was "nothing major to report". I couldn't believe my eyes. The PDR was written by a 32 years serving opposite sex Military Member.

  The honest hard working soldier does not have chance!