Pipelines, energy and natural resources

[suffolkowner]

You're continently glossing over the latitudes of those countries compared to one of our most southern cities, Toronto. Solar makes a heck of a lot more sense at the equator or even subtropical zones than it does in Toronto which averages about 3 hours of sunlight in the winter months.

They use what they have and we're forcing solutions into geography that doesn't work while locking abundant, cheap, natural gas behind ideology.

this is partially true but Toronto gets 8hrs and 55 minutes of sunlight on dec 21

 

[Good2Golf]

Just hoping our power prices don't get so uncompetitive that industry gets wiped out.

Compare to whom?

 

[ytz]

this is partially true but Toronto gets 8hrs and 55 minutes of sunlight on dec 21

And even that is irrelevant. Let's say a kW of panels magically became $2k to put on the roof? Pretty much every second home would have them. Price is all that matters.

 

[suffolkowner]

And even that is irrelevant. Let's say a kW of panels magically became $2k to put on the roof? Pretty much every second home would have them. Price is all that matters.

Rooftop solar three times cheaper to install in Australia than US, Canada

A new study has found the cost of installing rooftop solar is dramatically lower in Australia than the US and Canada – even in the most expensive Australian state for installation.

reneweconomy.com.au

its less than a $1/W in Australia

 

[ytz]

Compare to whom?

Depends on the industry.

Rooftop solar three times cheaper to install in Australia than US, Canada

A new study has found the cost of installing rooftop solar is dramatically lower in Australia than the US and Canada – even in the most expensive Australian state for installation.

reneweconomy.com.au

its less than a $1/W in Australia

Yep. They reduced installation costs substantially. That's the barrier. Not even panel costs.

I find the politics of this interesting in Australia. They've been happy to take Chinese solar panels and EVs to keep letting them ship coal and LNG to China. Kinda like how Danielle Smith was fine letting in Chinese EVs cause Alberta doesn't have an auto sector to protect.

 

[Kirkhill]

It wasn't all clean economics. You forget the corruption then too.

General Motors streetcar conspiracy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Remember when doctors were paid to tell people that cigarettes were not harmful.

Mate, corruption is a given. Everybody considers self-interest.
Utimately that is my problem with every system. Every decision chain ends in a self-interested human that isn't me.

In any event. Like I keep saying, our domestic politics is largely irrelevant. Nobody in Africa or Pakistan is basing their decision on solar PV or EVs based on what Carney or Poilievre do. They do it based on economics.

Agreed, and as it should be.

Heck, even the Saudis are getting in on the game. Using their solar advantage to build cheap data centres. They'll happily use cheap Chinese solar. Despite all that cheap oil. Funny what happens when ideology goes out the window and there's money to be made. They can turn mostly useless desert to service dollars with data centres, while still exporting oil.

The Saudis will buy cheap joules if they can sell expensive ones.
If the Chinese are willing to subsidize the Saudis with cheap slave labour the Saudis aren't going to fret the details.
Likewise for the Africans and Pakistanis.
The Chinese get their pound of flesh one way or another.

 

[ytz]

The Saudis will buy cheap joules if they can sell expensive ones.

Except that their oil sales aren't tied to their solar ambitions. It's a basic business proposition. Use the cheap power and turn it into cheap flops and bytes that they can sell. Quebec could do that with hydro. I hope Nova Scotia does that with offshore wind.

If the Chinese are willing to subsidize the Saudis with cheap slave labour the Saudis aren't going to fret the details.

They are no more subsidising the export of solar PV anymore than they are subsidizing the sale of the smartphone or laptop you typed this on. I'm going to guess that buying cruelty free artisan isn't on your list when buying electronics or clothing.

 

[Kirkhill]

Except that their oil sales aren't tied to their solar ambitions. It's a basic business proposition. Use the cheap power and turn it into cheap flops and bytes that they can sell. Quebec could do that with hydro. I hope Nova Scotia does that with offshore wind.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/nova-scotia-natural-gas-program-dalhousie-university-onshore-9.70255

Onshore natural gas

Nova Scotia has significant onshore natural gas reserves that can help create jobs, attract investment, enhance our energy security and reliability, and support the transition to clean energy.

novascotia.ca

Sable Offshore Energy Project

Status: Decommissioned and Abandoned

cnsoer.ca

They are no more subsidising the export of solar PV anymore than they are subsidizing the sale of the smartphone or laptop you typed this on. I'm going to guess that buying cruelty free artisan isn't on your list when buying electronics or clothing.

I have principles. When I can afford them. I need a phone. I need t-shirts. It is hard to find either that isn't made in China.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I have principles. When I can afford them. I need a phone. I need t-shirts. It is hard to find either that isn't made in China.

Three or four times through the wash and the t-shirts can't call home anymore.

 

[lenaitch]

i just question stacking multiple SMR's on a site instead of bigger ones. Its an investment in technology sure, it just seems to me that bigger is better when it comes to nuclear

I was under the impression that part of the reason for planting SMRs on an existing nuclear plot was a 'proof of concept' role. There's not a lot of real world experience with SMRs, and part of their alleged attraction is repeatability and scalability (up or down). At the OPG site east of Toronto, the engineering SMEs are already there.

 

[suffolkowner]

I was under the impression that part of the reason for planting SMRs on an existing nuclear plot was a 'proof of concept' role. There's not a lot of real world experience with SMRs, and part of their alleged attraction is repeatability and scalability (up or down). At the OPG site east of Toronto, the engineering SMEs are already there.

i think youre 100% right on that. I question the concept for Ontario though. They are not small or modular

 

[lenaitch]

this is partially true but Toronto gets 8hrs and 55 minutes of sunlight on dec 21

It just seems like three.

 

[Good2Golf]

i think youre 100% right on that. I question the concept for Ontario though. They are not small or modular

They are small relative to bigger 750-1500MW single units. In the right place they make eminent sense, particularly when they reduce dependency on vast distribution system to send power from the south up northwards.

They are modular, which by definition in the nuclear power industry means their separate major components are fabricated elevate then transported to the final site and assembled, quite unlike the in-place fabrication of large NPPs.