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Pipelines, energy and natural resources

  • Thread starter Thread starter QV
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Czech_pivo said:
It’s a bit like buying an apple from New Zealand in my grocery store in Burlington, ON at a price that’s cheaper than the Courtland apple that was grown 80km in Vineland, ON……
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and meanwhile the orchard on Guelph line has been cut down: not profitable
 
Czech_pivo said:
It’s a bit like buying an apple from New Zealand in my grocery store in Burlington, ON at a price that’s cheaper than the Courtland apple that was grown 80km in Vineland, ON……
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From the comments... ironic:

"Nova Scotia alone sits on up to 60 trillion cubic feet of LNG. Why is this even happening?"
 
YZT580 said:
and meanwhile the orchard on Guelph line has been cut down: not profitable
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Brutal!
Some older Mississaugian told me a number of back that Peel Region used to be known as the Orchard of the British Empire. Now, well, you know….
 
foresterab said:
The other part people forget is how much of the tourism is based upon infrastructure created originally for/by the forest industry. When the FSR roads aren't being maintained...it doesn't matter what's down there when they wash out.

It's actually one part I respected from BC forestry operations was the longer term planning in many areas where they would condition...as part of harvest approval...building certain access/staging to higher than needed logging standards in order to allow for future use for other industries. In exchange the cost difference would be credited back to the company and would be considered payment in kind (vs. dollars) when crown invoices for things such as timber dues would be required.

Canada is really big...and if we just travel the TransCanada highway I think a person gets an okay view of Ontario's landscape...but you miss so much of the west due to all the access focused in the southern 1/3rd of the province. Most folks never see the other corners of the province where small towns, rural farms and First Nations live and rely up on the limited resource jobs in the areas.
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Meanwhile, we could learn a lot from Mexico (and Las Vegas):

 
Some pipelines are going ahead...


Pembina greenlights two pipeline projects in Alberta, B.C.

Pembina says the two pipeline expansions it has sanctioned represent a total investment of $425 million and are set to come into service next year.

One $310-million project would see a new 95-kilometre pipeline that would ship 120,000 barrels per day of natural gas liquids between Birch and Taylor, B.C.

The firm has also decided to go ahead with an initial phase of a new pipeline connecting Taylor to a pump station in Gordondale, Alta., at a cost of $115 million.

"This milestone reflects strong collaboration with both Indigenous and local communities built on trust and open engagement," CEO Scott Burrows said in a news release Thursday.
 
daftandbarmy said:
Some pipelines are going ahead...


Pembina greenlights two pipeline projects in Alberta, B.C.

Pembina says the two pipeline expansions it has sanctioned represent a total investment of $425 million and are set to come into service next year.

One $310-million project would see a new 95-kilometre pipeline that would ship 120,000 barrels per day of natural gas liquids between Birch and Taylor, B.C.

The firm has also decided to go ahead with an initial phase of a new pipeline connecting Taylor to a pump station in Gordondale, Alta., at a cost of $115 million.

"This milestone reflects strong collaboration with both Indigenous and local communities built on trust and open engagement," CEO Scott Burrows said in a news release Thursday.
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There has been a major, and quietly done, realignment and optimization of pipeline flows as companies have consolidated fields and plants for increased efficiency. 25 years ago companies talked about developing a well...now it's a field+ at a time. As a result outfits like Pembina have also been creating smaller scale additions to the network.

One thing I've noticed is regardless of end goal design many companies are chunking projects into these smaller segments - more contractors can bid on smaller jobs (and reduced costs), easier to keep on task, and easier permiting process instead of doing 1,000+ segments like TransMountain.

Will be more interested to see if the second project requires federal overview as it's a cross-border pipeline and usually when NEB would get involved and process a project to death. Although BC -> AB seems to have less rigor than AB -> BC (my personal observation only).
 
foresterab said:
There has been a major, and quietly done, realignment and optimization of pipeline flows as companies have consolidated fields and plants for increased efficiency. 25 years ago companies talked about developing a well...now it's a field+ at a time. As a result outfits like Pembina have also been creating smaller scale additions to the network.

One thing I've noticed is regardless of end goal design many companies are chunking projects into these smaller segments - more contractors can bid on smaller jobs (and reduced costs), easier to keep on task, and easier permiting process instead of doing 1,000+ segments like TransMountain.

Will be more interested to see if the second project requires federal overview as it's a cross-border pipeline and usually when NEB would get involved and process a project to death. Although BC -> AB seems to have less rigor than AB -> BC (my personal observation only).
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I'm sure they're doing work that can be considered already 'pre-consulted' to save time.
 
daftandbarmy said:
I'm sure they're doing work that can be considered already 'pre-consulted' to save time.
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To be fair to the oil and gas industry I don't hear a ton of complaints over their consultation. The lesson the industry has learned is to go in early, before surveying if possible, and start the relationship building instead of showing up last minute and trying to rush. It's often easier to talk about specific areas and focus upon a few communities instead of entire projects as well as it allows for less finger pointing/balancing of impact issues (why did the Salish in BC get this when the Ojibway in Manitoba get peanuts type talk). It's also much easier to get both provincial and federal permits on smaller segments than major lines....especially when some like DFO have very strict timing requirements and short operational lifespans.

So for the last decade or so alot of large pipe has been installed by stitching small jobs together...one big job every year vs. a once in a life time build. On the First Nation side of things they are noticing this as well though and would not be surprised if more resistance is occurring than past years as more "lands taken up" by industry increases.
 
foresterab said:
There has been a major, and quietly done, realignment and optimization of pipeline flows as companies have consolidated fields and plants for increased efficiency. 25 years ago companies talked about developing a well...now it's a field+ at a time. As a result outfits like Pembina have also been creating smaller scale additions to the network.

One thing I've noticed is regardless of end goal design many companies are chunking projects into these smaller segments - more contractors can bid on smaller jobs (and reduced costs), easier to keep on task, and easier permiting process instead of doing 1,000+ segments like TransMountain.

Will be more interested to see if the second project requires federal overview as it's a cross-border pipeline and usually when NEB would get involved and process a project to death. Although BC -> AB seems to have less rigor than AB -> BC (my personal observation only).
Click to expand...
It used to be that anything over 75km of new ROW would trigger a CEAA review (Now the Impact Assessment Act) , not sure where the triggers are these days, but avoiding going over those thresholds while not making it look like you are piecemealing projects to avoid thresholds is a fine art....
 
Colin Parkinson said:
It used to be that anything over 75km of new ROW would trigger a CEAA review (Now the Impact Assessment Act) , not sure where the triggers are these days, but avoiding going over those thresholds while not making it look like you are piecemealing projects to avoid thresholds is a fine art....
Click to expand...

I would think it would easier to stitch some short trunks together from western Sask, across Alta and through NE BC if each segment were seen as servicing local fields.

Easier to build a milk run than an express line?

The problem then would still lie from the Divide to the Coast.

How many Nations is that? The half a dozen competing claims?
 
Kirkhill said:
I would think it would easier to stitch some short trunks together from western Sask, across Alta and through NE BC if each segment were seen as servicing local fields.

Easier to build a milk run than an express line?

The problem then would still lie from the Divide to the Coast.

How many Nations is that? The half a dozen competing claims?
Click to expand...
Unofrutnately while it is relatively simple to build within each provinces individual boundaries the moment the pipeline crosses a provincial boundary it comes under federal jurisdication as "interprovincial". This has been a big knock on any cross boundary stuff and timing hasn't always been calm. For example a few years back Alberta was objecting to a new pipeline coming from NE BC due to the extra BC gas adding more supply to the Alberta Hub and the depressing of Alberta prices. Thankfully....10 years later and a major pipeline built to the coast later...much of that supply is now flowing the BC coast and it's less of an issue.

Personally Ontario is where I'd like to see some pipeline investments to avoid the sections originally built through the US...there are a couple of pinch points there that scream "trade war fodder". An oil terminal in a place like Thunder Bay to ship some oil seasonally is also a possible option...but tanker size and seasonality of the port make it a tougher one to justify economically vs. supermax tankers loading on the coast. I view it more of a national security alternative to pipelines further east if Quebec is off limits.
 
foresterab said:
Unofrutnately while it is relatively simple to build within each provinces individual boundaries the moment the pipeline crosses a provincial boundary it comes under federal jurisdication as "interprovincial". This has been a big knock on any cross boundary stuff and timing hasn't always been calm. For example a few years back Alberta was objecting to a new pipeline coming from NE BC due to the extra BC gas adding more supply to the Alberta Hub and the depressing of Alberta prices. Thankfully....10 years later and a major pipeline built to the coast later...much of that supply is now flowing the BC coast and it's less of an issue.

Personally Ontario is where I'd like to see some pipeline investments to avoid the sections originally built through the US...there are a couple of pinch points there that scream "trade war fodder". An oil terminal in a place like Thunder Bay to ship some oil seasonally is also a possible option...but tanker size and seasonality of the port make it a tougher one to justify economically vs. supermax tankers loading on the coast. I view it more of a national security alternative to pipelines further east if Quebec is off limits.
Click to expand...

My brother in law from Saskatchewan met my sister in law when laying pipe in Ontario 50 years ago. She is from Hearst.
 
Kirkhill said:
My brother in law from Saskatchewan met my sister in law when laying pipe in Ontario 50 years ago.
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I thought this was a family friendly forum...

python GIF
 
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