Pipelines

[Czech_pivo]

ence the mental gymnastics around land acknowledgements asserting the same piece of land as the ancestral territory of three different nations that took it from each other in sequence.

I find it all fascinating. As someone who spent alot of time/effort in my younger years studying in Europe, 'Nationalism', 'National Identity', 'Ethnic Identity', 'Culture' and how each of those areas expanded and contracted over each of them depending on the year, on the issue, on the location, the leaders, throughout Europe from the age of Enlightenment to present day, I find the land acknowledgements being done in Ontario fascinating.

One the hand, a big push for this has come from the public school boards within Ontario, both at the board level and at the school trustee level, both of which are hotbeds of the labour movement in Ontario. These same labour unions are 100% dead against Israel and the acknowledgement that the Jewish people have a right to be on their ancestorial lands and that they in fact were on the land that is presently Israel before the Arabs were. A fact born the realization that the Jewish faith is at least 2,000yrs older than the founding of Islam. So, while we recognize that the land of city X in Ontario was once previously belonging to Indigenous nation/tribe/band Y at each and every school board event, they have no desire to acknowledge that the land of Israel previously belonged to the Jews and that they have simply taken back what was once there's. Putting aside all of the current/previous issues around the correct assessment that Palestinians dec

If that pans out then shorten the rail route by rebuilding Bruderheim at Portage la Prairie. It is on the rail line to Churchill and the TC Energy Mainline, the Enerbridge Mainline and the Keystone Pipeline.

Bruderheim cost 340,000,000 CAD to build and fills a unit train with 100,000 barrels of oil a day

8 trains to fill an Aframax like Mastera.

Expanding Bruderheim and adding refining capacity - Cenovus hints at future growth plans | Oil Sands Magazine

During this week's conference call, Cenovus Energy says it is working with CN and CP Rail to increase its crude-by-rail export capacity out of the Bruderheim terminal, located about 50 km northeast of Edmonton.

www.oilsandsmagazine.com

....

This Good Idea Fairy brought to you courtesy of Brian Zinchuk

Brian Zinchuk: Forget a northern energy corridor to Hudson Bay – just do it within Manitoba

There’s been talk of an energy corridor running from Port McMurray to Fort Nelson on Hudson Bay.However, it all depends on Manitoba’s election on Tuesday, Oct. 3. Everyone knows about Fort McMurray, but next to no one knows about Port Nelson, on the mouth of the Nelson River. Nor should...

pipelineonline.ca

....

If there is life in the idea, if there is a market (I believe there is), then the market will decide on a Portage trans-shipment point, rail line improvements, alternate pipelines, improving Churchill or adding Port Nelson, building a fleet of PC4 tankers*.

Oil tankers (and bulk-freighters), even ice-strengthened ones, are relatively cheap to build. Fed Nav has built 4 PC4/DNV ICE10-15 freighters and is operating three of them.

Daewoo has received orders for 15 LNG tankers, all built on the DAT principle of the Mastera.

Daewoo readies prototype Yamal icebreaking LNGC for action

The upcoming delivery of Daewoo Hull No 2418 signals the opening of the icebreaking chapter in the annals of LNG shipping history

www.rivieramm.com

Christophe de Margerie Class Icebreaking LNG Carriers

South Korean shipbuilding company, Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME), has a series of 15 icebreaking liquefied natural gas (LNG)…

www.ship-technology.com

...

Ice-strengthened ships and their operations are not magic.

LNG from Churchill by rail from Alberta or NG by pipeline from Cochrane to Moosonee on James Bay or Winnipeg to Port Nelson with LNG plants at each port.

...

If I can't go left then I must go right.

How many cars on that train to reach 100,000 barrels?
What is the size of the train yard in Churchill in terms number of cars it can hold?
Can the tracks handle the size the train needed?
How many trains a day can the tracks handle - after every train is there a need to spot check for safety issues the entire line?
I've read talk of them 'doubling' the trains per week right now to...... 2 a week - not 2 a day. To accommodate those 2 trains a week and the 8 needed for 1 tanker to be filled, that would put the number at 10 trains a week - has the line ever handled 10 trains a week?

 

[IKnowNothing]

I find it all fascinating. As someone who spent alot of time/effort in my younger years studying in Europe, 'Nationalism', 'National Identity', 'Ethnic Identity', 'Culture' and how each of those areas expanded and contracted over each of them depending on the year, on the issue, on the location, the leaders, throughout Europe from the age of Enlightenment to present day, I find the land acknowledgements being done in Ontario fascinating.

One the hand, a big push for this has come from the public school boards within Ontario, both at the board level and at the school trustee level, both of which are hotbeds of the labour movement in Ontario. These same labour unions are 100% dead against Israel and the acknowledgement that the Jewish people have a right to be on their ancestorial lands and that they in fact were on the land that is presently Israel before the Arabs were. A fact born the realization that the Jewish faith is at least 2,000yrs older than the founding of Islam. So, while we recognize that the land of city X in Ontario was once previously belonging to Indigenous nation/tribe/band Y at each and every school board event, they have no desire to acknowledge that the land of Israel previously belonged to the Jews and that they have simply taken back what was once there's. Putting aside all of the current/previous issues around the correct assessment that Palestinians dec

Huh. Never made that connection.

My thoughts moreso stem from petulance at the dogmatic acceptance of "time immemorial" based on oral tradition despite their being post-contact history of land changing hands. 6 Nations own documents refer to taking Southern Ontario by conquest from the Huron during the Beaver Wars. It's known fact that Brant and his settlers came from the States after the revolutionary war. And yet- "time immemorial" - don't you dare challenge it

Then we get into just discarding everything we know about the (un)reliable transfer of information, our principles regarding surety and provability- oral traditions need to be accepted as evidence equal to documents.

 

[Kirkhill]

I find it all fascinating. As someone who spent alot of time/effort in my younger years studying in Europe, 'Nationalism', 'National Identity', 'Ethnic Identity', 'Culture' and how each of those areas expanded and contracted over each of them depending on the year, on the issue, on the location, the leaders, throughout Europe from the age of Enlightenment to present day, I find the land acknowledgements being done in Ontario fascinating.

One the hand, a big push for this has come from the public school boards within Ontario, both at the board level and at the school trustee level, both of which are hotbeds of the labour movement in Ontario. These same labour unions are 100% dead against Israel and the acknowledgement that the Jewish people have a right to be on their ancestorial lands and that they in fact were on the land that is presently Israel before the Arabs were. A fact born the realization that the Jewish faith is at least 2,000yrs older than the founding of Islam. So, while we recognize that the land of city X in Ontario was once previously belonging to Indigenous nation/tribe/band Y at each and every school board event, they have no desire to acknowledge that the land of Israel previously belonged to the Jews and that they have simply taken back what was once there's. Putting aside all of the current/previous issues around the correct assessment that Palestinians dec

How many cars on that train to reach 100,000 barrels?
What is the size of the train yard in Churchill in terms number of cars it can hold?
Can the tracks handle the size the train needed?
How many trains a day can the tracks handle - after every train is there a need to spot check for safety issues the entire line?
I've read talk of them 'doubling' the trains per week right now to...... 2 a week - not 2 a day. To accommodate those 2 trains a week and the 8 needed for 1 tanker to be filled, that would put the number at 10 trains a week - has the line ever handled 10 trains a week?

34,500 USG per DOT/TC-111(7)
42 USG per barrel
821 bbl per car

100,000 bbls per day
821 bbls per car
120 cars per day

1 unit train of 120 cars at 60 ft each = 7200 ft = 2.2 km
Typical travel speed of 35.7 km/h = 3.7 minutes to pass a crossing

Bruderheim has 8 parallel sidings, 2 concentric ring tracks and 12 pumping stations.

8 Unit trains to fill one Aframax like Mastera/Petali

The Port of Churchill in Manitoba is ready for its global shipping moment, CEO says

Port allows Canada to diversify trade away from the U.S. and gives greater access to world markets, Chris Avery says

www.theglobeandmail.com

https://www.producer.com/news/year-round-port-proposed-for-hudson-bay/

Pro-Port Nelson

The ability to lay rail bed on rocky ground instead of muskeg was one of the initial reasons for choosing Port Nelson over Churchill. As the climate warms, the muskeg traversed by the Hudson Bay Line is frozen for fewer months and is less stable for longer periods.

Pro-Churchill

“You don’t just have a natural port there, you’ve got all the other infrastructure,” he said. “You’ve got a major airport; you’ve got a hospital; you’ve got schools; you’ve got retail; all of the things for a community exist there. There’s a lot of public investment that goes into a community.”

Prentice said the problem with running a rail line over muskeg can be solved.

“Easy. Just move the rail line 50 or 100 kilometres west of where the rail line is, and now you’re on the rocks. You’re probably looking at five or $6 million per kilometre. So, it’s not going to be cheap.”

At $6 million per km for 250 km of rail, the total cost would be approximately $1.5 billion. But 100 km of rail line would also have to be built to Port Nelson, where there’s no infrastructure.

“Why wouldn’t we reinforce an existing location instead of building a brand new one for the sake of 150 kilometres of rail line?” Prentice asked.

What does 100,000,000 CAD buy you?

16 km of rail at 6,000,000 CAD per km
600 DOT/TC-117 cars at 170,000 CAD apiece (5 unit trains)

Pipeline costs are comparable to the rail costs but don't require the engines and cars

1 Ice strengthened Aframax tanker new built in South Korea or Japan that can take you to any port on the planet with 15 crew.

Finnish refiner Neste has splashed out $140m on a pair of specialised aframax tanker newbuildings in what appears to be a return to shipowning.

A spokesman for the company confirmed that Neste has contracted two ice-class 1A aframax vessels at Hyundai Heavy Industries in South Korea which he said are of a high specification.

Neste re-emerges as shipowner with ice-class tanker order

Finnish refiner Neste has splashed out $140m on a pair of specialised aframax tanker newbuildings in what appears to be a return to shipowning.He said the vessels are for trading in the Baltic Sea region but declined to give any further details.

www.tradewindsnews.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Huh. Never made that connection.

My thoughts moreso stem from petulance at the dogmatic acceptance of "time immemorial" based on oral tradition despite their being post-contact history of land changing hands. 6 Nations own documents refer to taking Southern Ontario by conquest from the Huron during the Beaver Wars. It's known fact that Brant and his settlers came from the States after the revolutionary war. And yet- "time immemorial" - don't you dare challenge it

Then we get into just discarding everything we know about the (un)reliable transfer of information, our principles regarding surety and provability- oral traditions need to be accepted as evidence equal to documents.

In English law, time immemorial is legally defined as the period before July 6, 1189, the date of King Richard I's accession to the throne, according to legal history resources. This date was established by the Statute of Westminster in 1275. It essentially marks the beginning of legal memory in English law.

Norway, Denmark and Iceland have a similar situation to the First Nations. They held their histories as sagas recited by Scalds, verbal histories. They were only written down from roughly 1220 by Snorri Sturluson, a lawyer and poet who was Speaker of the Althing. Prior to the written history you have "time immemorial", or disputed history.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Norway, Denmark and Iceland have a similar situation to the First Nations. They held their histories as sagas recited by Scalds, verbal histories. They were only written down from roughly 1220 by Snorri Sturluson, a lawyer and poet who was Speaker of the Althing. Prior to the written history you have "time immemorial", or disputed history.

That's one definition. Then there's the US water rights definition, the colloquial one...

Common thread- hundreds / thousands of years, certainly prior to European contact in North America.

 

[lenaitch]

I find it all fascinating. As someone who spent alot of time/effort in my younger years studying in Europe, 'Nationalism', 'National Identity', 'Ethnic Identity', 'Culture' and how each of those areas expanded and contracted over each of them depending on the year, on the issue, on the location, the leaders, throughout Europe from the age of Enlightenment to present day, I find the land acknowledgements being done in Ontario fascinating.

One the hand, a big push for this has come from the public school boards within Ontario, both at the board level and at the school trustee level, both of which are hotbeds of the labour movement in Ontario. These same labour unions are 100% dead against Israel and the acknowledgement that the Jewish people have a right to be on their ancestorial lands and that they in fact were on the land that is presently Israel before the Arabs were. A fact born the realization that the Jewish faith is at least 2,000yrs older than the founding of Islam. So, while we recognize that the land of city X in Ontario was once previously belonging to Indigenous nation/tribe/band Y at each and every school board event, they have no desire to acknowledge that the land of Israel previously belonged to the Jews and that they have simply taken back what was once there's. Putting aside all of the current/previous issues around the correct assessment that Palestinians dec

How many cars on that train to reach 100,000 barrels?
What is the size of the train yard in Churchill in terms number of cars it can hold?
Can the tracks handle the size the train needed?
How many trains a day can the tracks handle - after every train is there a need to spot check for safety issues the entire line?
I've read talk of them 'doubling' the trains per week right now to...... 2 a week - not 2 a day. To accommodate those 2 trains a week and the 8 needed for 1 tanker to be filled, that would put the number at 10 trains a week - has the line ever handled 10 trains a week?

I agree with a lot of your analysis except for the "hotbed of the labour movement" part. While teachers are unionized, the entire educational system, from schools (including their elected boards) on up to universities, have be highjacked by extremely left ideology. They hang onto positions that would make auto or steel workers blush.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I agree with a lot of your analysis except for the "hotbed of the labour movement" part. While teachers are unionized, the entire educational system, from schools (including their elected boards) on up to universities, have be highjacked by extremely left ideology. They hang onto positions that would make auto or steel workers blush.

True, I shouldn’t have said that, it really is a small, select bunch that is really driving the bus on this issue.

 

[YZT580]

True, I shouldn’t have said that, it really is a small, select bunch that is really driving the bus on this issue.

numbers don't matter. If they control the bus they are dictating the information that your children are getting and you are fighting a losing battle to try and inform your kids of anything different. "What do you know dad?" My teacher says that/... is a line I heard too many times and even hard evidence won't change their thoughts. Teachers are dangerous

 

[Kirkhill]

EU Delists Three Sanctioned MOL LNG Carriers After Assurances Vessels Will Not Carry Russian Arctic Gas

In what appears to be a first, the European Union has delisted three previously sanctioned Mitsui O.S.K. Lines (MOL) LNG carriers. The move comes as part of the EU’s 18th package of economic sanctions against Russia, which imposed measures against 105 additional shadow fleet vessels.

gcaptain.com

3 Daewoo built Ice class LNG tankers built for Russia's Yamal now looking for cargo.

All we need now is another Kitimat style LNG facility for Hudson Bay.

 

[Kirkhill]

EU Delists Three Sanctioned MOL LNG Carriers After Assurances Vessels Will Not Carry Russian Arctic Gas

In what appears to be a first, the European Union has delisted three previously sanctioned Mitsui O.S.K. Lines (MOL) LNG carriers. The move comes as part of the EU’s 18th package of economic sanctions against Russia, which imposed measures against 105 additional shadow fleet vessels.

gcaptain.com

3 Daewoo built Ice class LNG tankers built for Russia's Yamal now looking for cargo.

All we need now is another Kitimat style LNG facility for Hudson Bay.

Daewoo built 15 or 16 of those ships. Most of them have non-Russian ownership and will be subject to similar sanctions.

 

[Kirkhill]

Why South Korea is suddenly talking about Arctic shipping route

Oceans and Fisheries Minister nominee Chun Jae-soo takes the oath of office ahead of his confirmation hearing at the National Assembly in Seoul, July 14. (Yonhap) SEOUL — Amid intensifying

globalnation.inquirer.net

And South Korea seems to be talking up Arctic transit. We seem to be on their buddy list and they like our energy.

South Korea’s Pilot Cargo of Canadian Crude Signals a New Era for Bilateral Energy Cooperation - Open Canada

Canadian crude offers Seoul an attractive blend of energy reliability and competitive pricing while Canada, in-turn, secures a dependable customer.

opencanada.org

 

[Kirkhill]

And finally, an article on the Enbridge "monopoly" and why it might be in no rush to build pipelines to the coast.

It benefited from both the TMX and KXL decisions. Shutting down KXL removed competition while TMX boosted prices while not materially impacting volume.

Enbridge benefits from both Alberta oil and BC gas.

South Korea’s Pilot Cargo of Canadian Crude Signals a New Era for Bilateral Energy Cooperation - Open Canada

Canadian crude offers Seoul an attractive blend of energy reliability and competitive pricing while Canada, in-turn, secures a dependable customer.

opencanada.org

 

[Kirkhill]

Not finally...

First LNG carrier newbuilding in half a century ordered at a US shipyard

Hanwha Shipping behind breakthrough contract at sister shipyard

www.upstreamonline.com

The yard given the contract is Hanwha Philly. Hanwha also builds submarines.

Hanwha bought the yard from Aker. Aker designed the Double Acting Tankers for the Yamal project and is a leader in icebreakers generally.

Hanwha is cooperating with Seaspan on the submarine project. Vancouver is tightly tied to Aker. Seaspan received South Korean help in rebuilding their yards.

...

The netting in continues.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Not finally...

First LNG carrier newbuilding in half a century ordered at a US shipyard

Hanwha Shipping behind breakthrough contract at sister shipyard

www.upstreamonline.com

The yard given the contract is Hanwha Philly. Hanwha also builds submarines.

Hanwha bought the yard from Aker. Aker designed the Double Acting Tankers for the Yamal project and is a leader in icebreakers generally.

Hanwha is cooperating with Seaspan on the submarine project. Vancouver is tightly tied to Aker. Seaspan received South Korean help in rebuilding their yards.

...

The netting in continues.

What might happen to Babcock's facilities on the WC and their current maintenance of the Vic's?

I've read that they've teamed up the SK's for the Polish bid but I've not read anything about them teaming up here in Canada, though I could have missed it.

 

[Kirkhill]

A day of rich pickings

JGC confirms share of $550 million FLNG contract

Japanese player working with Samsung Heavy Industries and Technip Energies to provide second vessel for Eni in Mozambique

www.upstreamonline.com

A floating LNG plant for 550 MUSD.

Just need a pipeline to deepwater.

 

[Kirkhill]

What might happen to Babcock's facilities on the WC and their current maintenance of the Vic's?

I've read that they've teamed up the SK's for the Polish bid but I've not read anything about them teaming up here in Canada, though I could have missed it.

Nothing heard.

 

[Kirkhill]

So yesterday PM Carney was visiting Nunavut and having a chat about Bill C5 and Arctic Ambassadors. He appointed a new Canadian ambassador.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/virginia-mearns-named-canada-s-arctic-ambassador-1.7592855

She is not just a Nunavut resident she is also an Inuit leader.

...

Related - The map of Nunavut. Nunavut includes all the islands of Hudson and James Bay.

i-Boating : Free Marine Navigation Charts & Fishing Maps

Deep water begins where the Nunavut Islands end. The closest points of approach to Ontario are Charlton Island, which is actually closer to Quebec and Rupert Bay but 100 km from Moosonee, Akimiski Island (a bird sanctuary off of Attawapiskat) and a Spratly Islands type shoal called Gasket Island that is about 100 km from both Moosonee and Fort Albany.

....

The Inuit are very keen on development. They have been supportive of mines in their territories (Diamonds, Gold, Iron and Nickel). They were arguing for the Gray's Bay Corridor from Yellowknife to the Western Arctic coast. They have been tying their Eastern Arctic coast (Rankin Inlet and Baker's Lake) into the Manitoba grids. In addition they have distinct carve outs in the Northwest Territories, Northern Quebec and Northern Labrador. They are not only development friendly they are keen on Arctic transport and have already established their own logistics companies. All the way from Goose Bay, around the coasts to Inuvik and up river to Yellowknife and Great Slave Lake.

....

If Alberta (and Ottawa) were looking for an Indigenous Partner to lead access to tide water they could do worse than stay friendly with the Inuit.

...

A gas pipeline from Cochrane to Gasket Island with Moosonee as a service port and a floating LNG terminal at Gasket Island? The James Bay side of Hudson Bay seems to have a longer shipping season than the Manitoba side.

https://pipeline-online-v1750862700.websitepro-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Hudson-Bay-Ice-Gif.gif

 

[Kirkhill]

Inuit political influence - Inuit Nunangat



It is easy to miss the significance of those little red dots in James Bay.

In 2021, there were 70,545 Inuit living in Canada, according to Statistique Canada. The Inuit population grew by 8.5% between 2016 and 2021. The majority of Inuit live in Inuit Nunangat, which encompasses 40% of Canada's land area and 72% of its coastline

 

[Kirkhill]

And an interesting 2023 summation of Arctic shipping.

What future for shipping in the Arctic region?

Climate models project continued and dramatic sea ice reductions in the Arctic, including nearly ice-free summer conditions by the mid-21st century. While […]

www.canadianminingjournal.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Apparently now would be a good time to get ships built

Orders for new bulkers and tankers fall by about 80% in first half of 2025

Deep plunge shows industry-wide caution, says Xclusiv Shipbrokers

www.tradewindsnews.com