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The man and equipment shortage is so bad that in 2VP a mechanized BN we now have 2 LAV coy's and 1 light coy. How the hell is that suppossed to work?
PM's New Bde of Peacekeepers (5,000 new soldiers), could it be a SOC Light Force?
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Brad Sallows
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Balloon-tired skateboards and tow ropes?
Y
Yard Ape
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It is as things are explained in the fleet managment thread. Your light company & one of your mechanized companies should be sharing vehicles.CFL said:
Don't you love the new direction we are taking in the Army?
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Just something else to add to my CF questionnaire.
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You should photo-copy it and have everyone on the forum send in one.{since it is anonymous] :
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Well I could give you the email provide. hehehe
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http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34
Discussion about the new multifunctional, 27,000 tonne carrier the Italians have just launched.
Same size as JSS, the San Antonios, the Spanish Izar BPE and the Australian requirement.
Warmongers all.
Discussion about the new multifunctional, 27,000 tonne carrier the Italians have just launched.
Same size as JSS, the San Antonios, the Spanish Izar BPE and the Australian requirement.
Warmongers all.
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Does not fulfill the AOR requirement the navy desperately needs to be revamped.
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Do I need to remind you about the last desgin we bought off the Italians (LSVW).
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The Italians make some nice warships though.
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You are right on both counts Ex-Dragoon. Still it would be nice to add one to the fleet along with the JSSs wouldn't it? And I know all about the money..... Oh well.
And CFL the LSVW was originally an IVECO design but it was Canadianized - the drive train was modified.
IVECO has put an awful lot of trucks on the road, many in Canada pulling 40 foot trailers commercially. They are also building the Centauro, most of the Italian APCs and the British Field Car (MLV) adopted to replace the LandRover Fitted For Radio Command Vehicles.
Maybe we would get a different outcome if we just adopted the recommendations of the manufacturer (on any equipment) rather than trying to re-engineer kit when our staff has only a limited idea of the compromises necessary in design.
Buy off the shelf. Repeat the buy if it works. Discard and buy another if it doesn't. If it really works well get a license and build lots in Canada.
Procurement modified. Forces equipped. Money Saved. Jobs Created. Technology Transferred. Expertise Gained.
Just a thought.
And CFL the LSVW was originally an IVECO design but it was Canadianized - the drive train was modified.
IVECO has put an awful lot of trucks on the road, many in Canada pulling 40 foot trailers commercially. They are also building the Centauro, most of the Italian APCs and the British Field Car (MLV) adopted to replace the LandRover Fitted For Radio Command Vehicles.
Maybe we would get a different outcome if we just adopted the recommendations of the manufacturer (on any equipment) rather than trying to re-engineer kit when our staff has only a limited idea of the compromises necessary in design.
Buy off the shelf. Repeat the buy if it works. Discard and buy another if it doesn't. If it really works well get a license and build lots in Canada.
Procurement modified. Forces equipped. Money Saved. Jobs Created. Technology Transferred. Expertise Gained.
Just a thought.
Brad Sallows
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Did it occur to anyone to look at this as "be careful what you wish for"?
Imagine a brigade constituted and trained purely for peacekeeping. Imagine its visibility, importance, and priority for funding from a political and civilian perspective. Consider the current balance of requirements and resources. Now imagine the funding priority of the "fighting" formations. What do you see as the end state?
Imagine a brigade constituted and trained purely for peacekeeping. Imagine its visibility, importance, and priority for funding from a political and civilian perspective. Consider the current balance of requirements and resources. Now imagine the funding priority of the "fighting" formations. What do you see as the end state?
Y
Yard Ape
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The ideal structure for a "peacekeeping" brigade would be the same ideal structure for our other brigades. Primarily mech infantry with advanced Command, Control, Communication, Sensing, and Information systems (consistent with the RMA) armed with precision weapons, and self-sustaining. It would be suited for low to high intensity warfare. It would just be a new 4 CMBG.
Brad Sallows
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You see that, and I see that, but what do you think the politician making the promise and the voters hearing it see?
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Yard Ape
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That is for our generals to keep the politicians informed on. The PAffOs can sell it to the public, and the politicians would love to get behind the message that Canada has 4 brigades fully capable of success through the full spectrum of peace operations (and not just one).
We would also be content in knowing that Canada would have 4 brigades fully capable of success through the full spectrum conflict (which includes peace operations and war).
We would also be content in knowing that Canada would have 4 brigades fully capable of success through the full spectrum conflict (which includes peace operations and war).
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Yup - "be careful what you wish for ..."
(i.e. the CF might end up paying for yet another poorly thought-out Liberal campaign promise ...)
PM's brigade for peace imperils navy, air force
Defence's doomsday scenario sees scrapping three destroyers and a quarter of CF-18 jets
Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service; With files from Times Colonist
Saturday, August 21, 2004
OTTAWA -- The Canadian Armed Forces are considering scrapping navy destroyers and air force fighter jets to pay for what they believe was an ill-considered campaign promise by Prime Minister Paul Martin to create a new brigade of 5,000 peacekeepers, the Ottawa Citizen reports.
Senior Defence Department planners presented Defence Minister Bill Graham with a doomsday scenario this week that called for grounding one-quarter of Canada's CF-18 fighter jets and mothballing the navy's three active destroyers.
Senior military officials say they have no choice because Martin has not earmarked new money for the Forces. Without making massive internal cuts, the military has no way of following the prime minister's orders to implement his campaign promise to create a new brigade of 5,000 soldiers devoted specifically to peacekeeping.
The military was caught off-guard by the pledge, which they believe Martin hastily made in the heat of fighting for his political life in June against a Conservative surge in the federal election.
One senior military official, speaking on condition on anonymity, said Forces leaders are worried they "are going to be perceived as being in bed with this cockamamie idea" of creating a new brigade of peacekeepers.
Martin is forcing the military "to come up with outrageous options to satisfy an election promise that came from nowhere," said the official.
Forces officers spoke up, albeit anonymously, because they are disillusioned with Martin, who campaigned for the Liberal leadership last year and went to the polls this year on a platform that called for restoring Canada as a credible player on the world stage, in part by boosting the Forces. They also don't want to be blamed in the future by the Prime Minister's Office -- or the public -- for being the architects of a plan that led to the demise of the navy and air force.
Martin backed away from conducting a broad review of Canada's defence policy, as he promised when he was sworn in as prime minister in December. Graham announced last month that there would be no formal defence policy review, just an "in-house" examination that would have no public consultation.
Defence analysts say Martin's actions show he is not interested in revitalizing the Forces, and that he will be hard-pressed to elevate Canada's stature internationally if he does not have a credible military to use as a foreign-policy tool.
"The government doesn't seem to want defence as an issue in the future," said Alain Pellerin, the executive director of the Conference of Defence Associations, the military's largest lobby group. "It's disappointing to see how it all turned out because there have been so many promises."
Graham is to present Martin with the military's new plan at a cabinet meeting next week in Ottawa.
Defence officials say the Forces are already running a $1-billion annual deficit to pay for current operations. Adding a new brigade would cost $2.5 billion in startup costs, and an additional $400 million to $500 million a year to sustain.
With no additional money, the new brigade has to be financed out of the current $13-billion annual budget.
York University defence analyst Martin Shadwick said the government should conduct full public consultations before contemplating such drastic changes to the military.
The plan to ground 20 of Canada's 80 CF-18 fighter jets will not sit well with the United States, which expects Canada to make a meaningful contribution to North American air defences following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said Shadwick.
Getting rid of the navy's destroyers would also mean Canada could never again command a multinational naval force, as it has done in the Persian Gulf, he said.
Destroyers are equipped with an extensive communications network capable of playing a "command and control platform" role in a task force, mostly co-ordinating activities for all ships in the group. Esquimalt-based HMCS Algonquin served such a role in 2002 in the Arabian Sea during Operation Apollo.
Lt.-Cmdr. Hubert Genest, spokesman for the navy in Esquimalt, said the decision to scrap destroyers rests solely with government. "We don't have much comment," he said. "As you know, these are political decisions."
In addition to the Algonquin, the Pacific Fleet has another destroyer tied up. HMCS Huron is likely to be decommissioned and sold for scrap, Genest said. Two other destroyers sail out of Halifax.
The Algonquin, now with 30 years service, recently returned to Esquimalt from exercises off Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. The warship, which can carry two of the aging Sea King combat helicopters now set to be replaced, underwent a $24-million refit a couple of years ago.
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2004
(i.e. the CF might end up paying for yet another poorly thought-out Liberal campaign promise ...)
PM's brigade for peace imperils navy, air force
Defence's doomsday scenario sees scrapping three destroyers and a quarter of CF-18 jets
Mike Blanchfield
CanWest News Service; With files from Times Colonist
Saturday, August 21, 2004
OTTAWA -- The Canadian Armed Forces are considering scrapping navy destroyers and air force fighter jets to pay for what they believe was an ill-considered campaign promise by Prime Minister Paul Martin to create a new brigade of 5,000 peacekeepers, the Ottawa Citizen reports.
Senior Defence Department planners presented Defence Minister Bill Graham with a doomsday scenario this week that called for grounding one-quarter of Canada's CF-18 fighter jets and mothballing the navy's three active destroyers.
Senior military officials say they have no choice because Martin has not earmarked new money for the Forces. Without making massive internal cuts, the military has no way of following the prime minister's orders to implement his campaign promise to create a new brigade of 5,000 soldiers devoted specifically to peacekeeping.
The military was caught off-guard by the pledge, which they believe Martin hastily made in the heat of fighting for his political life in June against a Conservative surge in the federal election.
One senior military official, speaking on condition on anonymity, said Forces leaders are worried they "are going to be perceived as being in bed with this cockamamie idea" of creating a new brigade of peacekeepers.
Martin is forcing the military "to come up with outrageous options to satisfy an election promise that came from nowhere," said the official.
Forces officers spoke up, albeit anonymously, because they are disillusioned with Martin, who campaigned for the Liberal leadership last year and went to the polls this year on a platform that called for restoring Canada as a credible player on the world stage, in part by boosting the Forces. They also don't want to be blamed in the future by the Prime Minister's Office -- or the public -- for being the architects of a plan that led to the demise of the navy and air force.
Martin backed away from conducting a broad review of Canada's defence policy, as he promised when he was sworn in as prime minister in December. Graham announced last month that there would be no formal defence policy review, just an "in-house" examination that would have no public consultation.
Defence analysts say Martin's actions show he is not interested in revitalizing the Forces, and that he will be hard-pressed to elevate Canada's stature internationally if he does not have a credible military to use as a foreign-policy tool.
"The government doesn't seem to want defence as an issue in the future," said Alain Pellerin, the executive director of the Conference of Defence Associations, the military's largest lobby group. "It's disappointing to see how it all turned out because there have been so many promises."
Graham is to present Martin with the military's new plan at a cabinet meeting next week in Ottawa.
Defence officials say the Forces are already running a $1-billion annual deficit to pay for current operations. Adding a new brigade would cost $2.5 billion in startup costs, and an additional $400 million to $500 million a year to sustain.
With no additional money, the new brigade has to be financed out of the current $13-billion annual budget.
York University defence analyst Martin Shadwick said the government should conduct full public consultations before contemplating such drastic changes to the military.
The plan to ground 20 of Canada's 80 CF-18 fighter jets will not sit well with the United States, which expects Canada to make a meaningful contribution to North American air defences following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said Shadwick.
Getting rid of the navy's destroyers would also mean Canada could never again command a multinational naval force, as it has done in the Persian Gulf, he said.
Destroyers are equipped with an extensive communications network capable of playing a "command and control platform" role in a task force, mostly co-ordinating activities for all ships in the group. Esquimalt-based HMCS Algonquin served such a role in 2002 in the Arabian Sea during Operation Apollo.
Lt.-Cmdr. Hubert Genest, spokesman for the navy in Esquimalt, said the decision to scrap destroyers rests solely with government. "We don't have much comment," he said. "As you know, these are political decisions."
In addition to the Algonquin, the Pacific Fleet has another destroyer tied up. HMCS Huron is likely to be decommissioned and sold for scrap, Genest said. Two other destroyers sail out of Halifax.
The Algonquin, now with 30 years service, recently returned to Esquimalt from exercises off Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. The warship, which can carry two of the aging Sea King combat helicopters now set to be replaced, underwent a $24-million refit a couple of years ago.
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2004
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Ah! Daydreaming of a Brigade being formed in the area of Wellsford, NB, with docks and warehouses built in St John, NB. ready for fast deployment by rail or sea.....and the reintroduction of a Air Assault Bn and Tac Hel Sqn to Lahr as part of the Multinational NATO Bde in Strasbourg and a forward Air and Supply facility for NATO and UN missions to Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa.......God how I hate politicians of the Mulroney and Liberal ilk.
GW
GW
Brad Sallows
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Too bad we can't get the Liberals to fulfill all the campaign promises by forcing every department to reach within itself.
Y
Yard Ape
Guest
If the PM is not ready to provide the 5,000 new PYs he promised he should also give up on the brigade he promised. We need a fourth brigade, but we cannot afford it at the expense of what we have.
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