PMV and Travel Limits While on TD

[Brasidas]

- for every 500km of travel, you will require 1 day of paid leave (includes Wknd, Stat, Ann or Short if you were lucky and got some to travel;  I have seen Short given before for this).  If your Report Day was a Sunday, you'd likely have to use 2 Ann Days, with Sat and Sun being Wknd.  You can travel 500km on your Report Day, provided your timing is the usual "1400/1600 hrs" which seems to be the norm.  If your trip is 1845km one way, or 1545km one way, that still will require 4 days paid Lve. 

Using the example of $450 max from the cost comparison, you will have $450 to pay for the trip there AND back.  That includes food, fuel, hotels, etc.  IIRC you sign a waiver stating you know all this and accept that you will take the hit for anything above/beyond the $450.

As you are probably talking about a CL B callout, you may find that CFSEME will not extend your contract to cover the travel (likely 6 more days of pay than if you flew) and your unit might not want to pay CL A days as well.  If you are on a CL B that is greater than 60 days, you may have to use the Ann Lve you'd recieve for travel, if they would even approve it.  If that was denied, the only other option might be LWOP (Leave Without Pay) and I can't comment on whether or not that is allowable for your situation. 

* the times I've went to Borden or rtn, I've travelled thru the border at Niagra Falls, thru NY State, Mass, the 10 minute drive thru NH  and thru Maine.  Nice drive, alittle shorter and you can get some shopping done in Maine if you feel the need.  The crossing in Holten puts you right at Woodstock.  There is also Calais/St Stephen, but I like the drive on the I-95 to Holten better myself.  Also, this route *might* put you under the 1500km mark from Moncton - Borden and save you 1 Ann Lve day each way; something worth looking into.

I've never been on contract other than the day prior and the day after the tasking, and I've been on POMV across the country. I get the tasking or course, request POMV, get the cost comparison rigamarole with the amount the CF'll cover, and carry on. No extension of my class B contract, no mention of leave days.

If its a course with no annual that I can take for the duration, it's tacked on after the contract. If its not, my annual gets taken during the contract.

 

[chrisf]

Wasn't there an order on this exact subject that came out just last week?

Can't recall the exact details, I wasn't paying that much attention, will not be going on any taskings in the next few years, but the short of it was, they're not paying for POMV travel for class B taskings any more... if you don't want to fly, you're on your own dime to drive (Meaning they will no longer give you up to the equivilent cost of your ticket), and it still needs to be authorized by the CO.

Why, no idea, didn't cost the CF any extra the old way, but that's it.

 

[twilrecce]

Ahh ok so there is someone else who had heard of some new rules, ok cool. well like I said I promise to update you all

 

[chrisf]

I might have a written copy of it around somewhere...

I checked, I do not have a written copy... but it was very recent, I heard about it on the 12th... like I said, I wasn't paying that much attention, as it won't affect me for at least a few years, but the short of it they will no longer be providing you with any compensation for POMV travel... though if you want to travel up on your own dime, it still has to be authorized by your CO. As a class A member starting a class B contract, you should still be entitled to your travel day and meal claims on your travel day, but I believe that's it.

Check with your clerks for full details.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just curious, was it a CANFORGEN?  LFAAD?  CBI/CFTDI update?

Always like to update my UFI folder in my Favorites at work.

 

[dapaterson]

The CFTDI underwent a significant rewrite recently; it's worth taking a gander.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

ack.  tks.

Just when you start to understand something...it changes.  ;D

 

[Celticgirl]

The CFTDI underwent a significant rewrite recently; it's worth taking a gander.

Unfortunately, the CFTDI is no longer available online.  You have to email someone to request a copy of it.  We keep a physical copy in the OR as a reference along with any related Canforgens.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

???

I'm looking at it right now on the DIN (DCBA site), the "Revised 01 Jan 2012" version.

 

[Celticgirl]

???

I'm looking at it right now on the DIN (DCBA site), the "Revised 01 Jan 2012" version.

Really?  Maybe it was just the old one that was no longer available then.  I will have a look at it when I am at work tomorrow.  Thanks!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Its a mere 96 pages  :blotto:, but taking a quick look thru it (did a *Find* for PMV), I am not seeing anything where it says a member can't use PMV. 

It does sat "may be auth" and "PMV - Driver " with subsections "Mbr is requested to use PMV" as well as "Mbr requests to Use PMV".  Obviously there is more to it than just that but....

 

[chrisf]

Just curious, was it a CANFORGEN?  LFAAD?  CBI/CFTDI update?

Always like to update my UFI folder in my Favorites at work.

No idea, it was one of a list of administrative points read by our troop wo last week, like I said, I didn't pay that much attention, my civillian employer demands enough of my attention that I won't be going on any taskings for the next several years.

It may well have been confusion on the part of whoever originated it above him,  I just know what was read last week.

If I find myself on that end of town today, I'll drop in and see if I can find the reference.

 

[George Wallace]

Awesome.  It is so much easier having an online copy so that I can Ctrl-F to find what I need.    Sorting through that many pages by hand is time-consuming and frustrating. 

As for POMV, yes, there is certainly more to it than that.  Generally, it is 'most economical means' so if, for example, someone is going on TD to Hfx from Greenwood, the most economical option is an MSE rental.  If the mbr wants to take POMV and they have auth to do so, they will get a cost comparison to the amount of the rental + fuel (as per Cost Factor Manual rate).  However, if they are flying out of Hfx to somewhere and IBBS is available from Greenwood to Hfx Airport, but they want to take POMV instead (and have auth to do so), they will not get anything - not even parking, even with a receipt - as it would not have cost the CF anything for the mbr to take IBBS.  Mbrs need to realize that if they take their own vehicle, they are not necessarily (in fact, almost always "not") going to get mileage + fuel + pkg.  Most of the time, they will get a CC to what it would have cost the CF for them to take the most economical transportation - and sometimes that is zero dollars.

I'm intrigued about the Class B changes mentioned above as well.  I have some research to do tomorrow!

You have left out the "quality of life" factor that may/could be included.  Will the member be required to rent a veh or use taxi and/or bus transportation while on a prolonged tasking to travel to and from place of employment and on time off for admin or recreation?  Not all taskings are to locations that are all singing and dancing when it comes to accommodations and close proximity to work or play.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Will someone please.........please........please, just answer the friggin' question that was asked, without all the hypotheticals and tangents. Please. :

 

[bridges]

I thought it was already answered by Celticgirl yesterday.  Here's what the CFTDI says:

Para 7.40(2):

(Member Requests To Use PMV) Subject to paragraph 7.20(2), a member — including a member of the Reserve Force on Class “A” Reserve Service — who requests to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority and who uses that PMV on duty travel is entitled to be reimbursed — for only the first day of travel to the destination and for only the first day of return travel from the destination — the following amounts:

(a) the lesser of,
(i) the kilometric rate for the direct road distance, and
(ii) as determined by a method established under the authority of the CDS, the cost of the more economical and practical mode of transportation; and

(b) if the member is required to purchase additional insurance to carry passengers for business purposes, the actual and reasonable expenses of that additional insurance.

...AND...

7.41(6)
(Paid Leave) If a member — who requests to use a PMV — has insufficient paid leave remaining for any travel in excess of the more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority , then the member shall not be authorized to use their PMV as requested.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I thought it was already answered by Celticgirl yesterday.  Here's what the CFTDI says:

Para 7.40(2):

(Member Requests To Use PMV) Subject to paragraph 7.20(2), a member — including a member of the Reserve Force on Class “A” Reserve Service — who requests to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority and who uses that PMV on duty travel is entitled to be reimbursed — for only the first day of travel to the destination and for only the first day of return travel from the destination — the following amounts:

(a) the lesser of,
(i) the kilometric rate for the direct road distance, and
(ii) as determined by a method established under the authority of the CDS, the cost of the more economical and practical mode of transportation; and

(b) if the member is required to purchase additional insurance to carry passengers for business purposes, the actual and reasonable expenses of that additional insurance.

...AND...

7.41(6)
(Paid Leave) If a member — who requests to use a PMV — has insufficient paid leave remaining for any travel in excess of the more economical and practical mode of transportation selected by the approving authority , then the member shall not be authorized to use their PMV as requested.

Sorry. Missed it.

That's the problem when everyone decides to parse the question and start dragging out, what if's, when I went on course, MY clerk says, etc.

The real, and only needed, answer gets lost in all the clag.

Then we get someone asking it a week from now because they can't find it amongst all the pages of personal exploits and opinions on the subject.

 

[bridges]

That never happens...    ;D

 

[dapaterson]

Except this member is a Reservist, who is not currently on full-time service.  Thus, sub-para (9) applies:

(9) (Class “A” Reserve Service) A member of the Reserve Force, who requests to use their PMV on duty travel, shall be placed on Class “A” Reserve Service on the first day of travel to or from a destination and shall not be authorized any subsequent Class “A” Reserve Service for any subsequent days of that duty travel to or from that location.

Thus, should this individual elect to take their PMV, they would be paid for the first travel day, but not for subsequent days, prior to their arrival.

 

[bridges]

Except this member is a Reservist, who is not currently on full-time service.  Thus, sub-para (9) applies:

Thus, should this individual elect to take their PMV, they would be paid for the first travel day, but not for subsequent days, prior to their arrival.

And their status and coverage in the remaining days is...  ?

 

[dapaterson]

And their status and coverage in the remaining days is...  ?

SOL?  The CFTDI doesn't say.