Police arrest Toronto man on suspicion of spying for P.R. China

[lenaitch]

Jordan was a 2016 case, and everyone’s very used to working in the post-Jordan framework now; the need for expeditious action - and for police and the crown to meticulously account for every day of delay - is now part of SOP. Hopefully knowing what they’re dealing with will allow police and prosecutors to deal with these challenges more smoothly and hit the timelines needed. Jordan makes some allowance for exceptionally complex cases, and I don’t think just what that means has been made clear in court yet, at least not in national security cases.

As you say, the players regularly involved in the criminal justice system are well aware of the pressure imposed by Jordan, but the challenge seems to be the rangling of the other players and levels who become involved in SOIA cases. It may take an appeal court or SCC level ruling to provide some grace because of the additional layers involved.

 

[FJAG]

Jordan makes some allowance for exceptionally complex cases, and I don’t think just what that means has been made clear in court yet, at least not in national security cases.

There are a number of cases that address it but I think this is one of those things that will take years to work out as new situations come along and are either accepted or rejected over time.

There's a good explanation of it on the Justice website.

 

[Dana381]

So what happens to Qing Quentin Huang now? Can they at least deport him? Hopefully there is something they can do to prevent him from spying again.

 

[lenaitch]

So what happens to Qing Quentin Huang now? Can they at least deport him? Hopefully there is something they can do to prevent him from spying again.

As far as I know he is has Canadian citizenship.

Can My Citizenship Be Revoked? - Canadian Citizenship

As of March 28, 2015, it became possible for Canadian Citizenship to be revoked for immigration fraud and terrorism-related charges. Prior to this date, it

canadian-citizenship.ca

 

[lenaitch]

There are a number of cases that address it but I think this is one of those things that will take years to work out as new situations come along and are either accepted or rejected over time.

There's a good explanation of it on the Justice website.

Interesting read. It would seem, without knowing all the procedural details and timelines, particularly those outside of the justice system,and how expeditiously they proceeded, that this might be worthy of Crown appeal. At least then everybody would know and, if necessary, re-craft the process to accommodate Jordan.

 

[brihard]

So what happens to Qing Quentin Huang now? Can they at least deport him? Hopefully there is something they can do to prevent him from spying again.

Well, obviously his security clearance is gone forever, and he won't be getting any employment that's likely to expose him to sensitive information. I wouldn't see him as much of an espionage threat anymore, unless Dominos Pizza is holding national security secrets. This isn't really something you ever get a second chance at.

Interesting read. It would seem, without knowing all the procedural details and timelines, particularly those outside of the justice system,and how expeditiously they proceeded, that this might be worthy of Crown appeal. At least then everybody would know and, if necessary, re-craft the process to accommodate Jordan.

Here's the unreasonable delay application decision for Huang. 2021 ONSC 8372 (CanLII) | R. v. Huang | CanLII. The judge even granted nearly 8 months grace on the delay due to COVID.

Huang had some of everything... Applications to challenge the admissibility of wiretap evidence; national security redactions and S.38 hearings; CSIS in the mix and all the complications that brings... If you wanted to create a criminal file with the specific intent of causing crown to bash their head off a keyboard til they go fetal and cry, I can't imagine a better way than basing the entire thing on a CSIS wiretap with (drawing inference here) foreign intelligence information as part of the grounds. It's not even like there was anything done inappropriately or deceptively by police that would let crown simply say "You screwed up, we can't win- we're staying this". They had what appears to be a clean, legitimate, and prosecutable case, but with a super ugly origin story. They had to prosecute this case.

I'm at the limit of my ability to knowledgably nerd out on the law on this. I look forward to seeing a post mortem by those better versed in the national security law on this.

 

[dapaterson]

The post-mortem will be classified, I'm sure... and may well include "As we planned, the Chinese intelligence services are freaking out, trying to figure out what else we know, are tracking, and have not revealed" and "Roll a few more vehicles that are obviously unmarked surveillance cars past those folks' homes to try to spook them".

 

[brihard]

The post-mortem will be classified, I'm sure... and may well include "As we planned, the Chinese intelligence services are freaking out, trying to figure out what else we know, are tracking, and have not revealed" and "Roll a few more vehicles that are obviously unmarked surveillance cars past those folks' homes to try to spook them".

I don’t mean internal- I mean from the legal academics in the NatSec field.

 

[Good2Golf]

This cowboy wouldn’t be surprised if he’s forgiven and hired back into a position requiring a security clearance, because…he built back better(TM)…

 

[Dana381]

As far as I know he is has Canadian citizenship.

Can My Citizenship Be Revoked? - Canadian Citizenship

As of March 28, 2015, it became possible for Canadian Citizenship to be revoked for immigration fraud and terrorism-related charges. Prior to this date, it

canadian-citizenship.ca

If he wasn't born in Canada I'm sure they could "find" a lie somewhere on his immigration application. Why is espionage not a reason for citizenship revocation.

The citizenship oath;

I swear (or affirm)
That I will be faithful
And bear true allegiance
To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second
Queen of Canada
Her Heirs and Successors
And that I will faithfully observe
The laws of Canada
Including the Constitution
Which recognizes and affirms
The Aboriginal and treaty rights of
First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples
And fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

By the wording of the oath they should be able to turf you for any broken laws.

 

[ModlrMike]

Didn't someone say "a Canadian is a Canadian"?

 

[lenaitch]

If he wasn't born in Canada I'm sure they could "find" a lie somewhere on his immigration application. Why is espionage not a reason for citizenship revocation.

The citizenship oath;

I swear (or affirm)
That I will be faithful
And bear true allegiance
To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second
Queen of Canada
Her Heirs and Successors
And that I will faithfully observe
The laws of Canada
Including the Constitution
Which recognizes and affirms
The Aboriginal and treaty rights of
First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples
And fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

By the wording of the oath they should be able to turf you for any broken laws.

The oath is one thing, but it's not legislation. Besides, this guy has been convicted of nothing. I suspect a fine toothed comb has been deployed on his application.

Some feel that we should be able to turf any non-natural citizen for any transgression, great or small. Others, and the prevailing attitude, is that once the decision has been made, we accepted the person as our problem, with some exceptions.