Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

[dapaterson]

If you stunt drive drunk, pursued, across an interprovincial boundary and are arrested at gunpoint... and it's the third disciplinary hearing you're found guilty at for a variety of infractions, why are you still a cop?

Ottawa police officer demoted for discreditable conduct

Const. Umer Khan said he was under significant stress in 2018 due to a neighbour dispute when he was arrested for impaired driving.

ottawacitizen.com

Ottawa cop pleads guilty to dangerous, impaired driving

Nothing’s ever been quite the same for Ottawa police Const. Umer Khan since that night at a ByWard Market strip joint when a deranged man pressed a loaded .38 revol…

ottawacitizen.com

 

[Jarnhamar]

The old conditional discharge.

Ottawa cop granted conditional discharge after pleading guilty to assaulting 13-year-old boy at CHEO​

Ottawa police Const. Muhammad Omair Khan was granted a conditional discharge in court Thursday after he pleaded guilty to assaulting a handcuffed, defenceless 13-year-old boy who was in his custody and in the midst of a mental health crisis in a CHEO hallway in 2022.[./quote]

 

[Booter]

The old conditional discharge.

Ottawa cop granted conditional discharge after pleading guilty to assaulting 13-year-old boy at CHEO​

Where there are no injuries, the person has no record, and it’s an event of a few seconds- where the person readily admits they were wrong and completes counselling- not just saying they are going to go or that they are going- what do you think should happen to a first time offender in the Canadian system? Like if they weren’t a cop.

I’m legitimately curious. So he will have a professional hearing about the conduct- the court is dealing specifically with the criminal part- what would be the appropriate jail time that you would suggest for them?

Like…if they were convicted and given probation would that be better? They would get a pardon eventually but like is that the issue?

Like they are a social services worker or a teacher- this isn’t unusual for them to find themselves on that side of an investigation like this except the person wouldn’t be handcuffed.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I’m legitimately curious.

Fair question. Let me ask something first to help me articulate an answer.

Suppose you charge me for something. Say going through a red light. You say I'm guilty, I say I'm innocent. There's no proof it's just your word against mine. Does the court take your word over mine?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Where there are no injuries, the person has no record, and it’s an event of a few seconds- where the person readily admits they were wrong and completes counselling- not just saying they are going to go or that they are going- what do you think should happen to a first time offender in the Canadian system? Like if they weren’t a cop.

I’m legitimately curious. So he will have a professional hearing about the conduct- the court is dealing specifically with the criminal part- what would be the appropriate jail time that you would suggest for them?

Like…if they were convicted and given probation would that be better? They would get a pardon eventually but like is that the issue?

Like they are a social services worker or a teacher- this isn’t unusual for them to find themselves on that side of an investigation like this except the person wouldn’t be handcuffed.

Not jail time, but when the sheep dog attacks the sheep... well in this case he probably should lose his job.

If I assaulted and handcuffed a subordinate who was having a mental break down and instead of providing the leadership or compassion that is expected of me, I can tell you with no shadow of a doubt my career would be over.

That shows an inability to contain ones emotions and composure in stressful situations, not someone I want walking around with a badge, feeling of power and a firearm.

 

[mariomike]

Like they are a social services worker or a teacher- this isn’t unusual for them to find themselves on that side of an investigation like this except the person wouldn’t be handcuffed.

The US began phasing out the use of handcuffs by paramedics beginning in 2021.

May 28, 2024

MINNEAPOLIS — Hennepin County is phasing out the use of handcuffs by its paramedics to secure unruly patients, after its leaders checked and discovered that its urban ambulance agency was among the last in the nation to still use them.

City of Minneapolis paramedics reportedly handcuffed more than 2,000 patients in 2023.

 

[Booter]

Fair question. Let me ask something first to help me articulate an answer.

Suppose you charge me for something. Say going through a red light. You say I'm guilty, I say I'm innocent. There's no proof it's just your word against mine. Does the court take your word over mine?

In the absence of footage and notes? No. If in your scenario you immediately took a bunch of notes about your ticket and the circumstances- and I had no camera footage there’s actually a very good chance the judge would find us both credible.

What gets people convicted isn’t the officers word- it’s the preparation. The notes and testimony demonstrate that the officer was paying attention in that moment to what they were doing- and the other person can’t say the same. Not that they were more honest because of their job- those days have been gone a long time. Its routine to lose personally observed offences in court, where multiple officers have observed the offence, where the defence isn’t much more than “no I didn’t”.

twenty years ago they would have 100% taken the police officers word. That isn’t the reality today.

The courts expectation of who is credible isnt really a factor in this article though. This a criminal trial not a professional conduct hearing.

Not jail time, but when the sheep dog attacks the sheep... well in this case he probably should lose his job.

If I assaulted and handcuffed a subordinate who was having a mental break down and instead of providing the leadership or compassion that is expected of me, I can tell you with no shadow of a doubt my career would be over.

That shows an inability to contain ones emotions and composure in stressful situations, not someone I want walking around with a badge, feeling of power and a firearm.

I agree with that idea more often than not. It’s too hard to let police officers go but that’s not done in criminal court either.

 

[Haggis]

I agree with that idea more often than not. It’s too hard to let police officers go but that’s not done in criminal court either.

Maybe a good comparison would be:

NDA/CSD equals Criminal Code. Both can send you to jail, impose fines and conditions.
DAOD 5019 series equals Police Services Acts. Both can alter or end your career without sending you to jail.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So many novel ways to get into trouble these days - mainly for dumb people ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801428647800410602

 

[Halifax Tar]

So many novel ways to get into trouble these days - mainly for dumb people ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801428647800410602

It's amazing how self destructive people can be.

 

[Jarnhamar]

twenty years ago they would have 100% taken the police officers word. That isn’t the reality today.

Man your informed and common sense answers are really frustrating when I'm trying to be angry

But I'm glad to see you say that. I hold police officers (and CAF officers) to a higher standard of behavior than average citizens. At the end of the day "they're people too" and make mistakes. Police are in a position of authority and power, and can easily ruin someone life if they're unethical or doing shady shit. This thread is full of examples.

Again in my opinion that position of power and authority should come with not just a higher bar of behavior, but also punishment.
(The same way a CAF major should be punished more harshly than a pte.)

This guy had a poopy day and assaulted a 13 year old handcuffed kid. Would I get the same conditional discharge? Maybe. Does the conditional discharge give the optics of him not being held accountable? I think so.

This case may not be a good example but there are a number of cases where cops get a conditional discharge that seem at odds with justice being done.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So many novel ways to get into trouble these days - mainly for dumb people ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801428647800410602

When I teach students I (try to) hammer home that:
-every work email you send is recorded and can be ATIPd
-every text you send is saved and can be accessed.
-every phone call and conversation you have with someone can be recorded.
-everything you do outside of your house can be filmed.

It's amazing how many people don't seem to register this.

 

[Remius]

When I teach students I (try to) hammer home that:
-every work email you send is recorded and can be ATIPd
-every text you send is saved and can be accessed.
-every phone call and conversation you have with someone can be recorded.
-everything you do outside of your house can be filmed.

It's amazing how many people don't seem to register this.

What’s worse is some do it even if they know all of these things. We are well into the age of social media and recording everything.

 

[Booter]

Man your informed and common sense answers are really frustrating when I'm trying to be angry

But I'm glad to see you say that. I hold police officers (and CAF officers) to a higher standard of behavior than average citizens. At the end of the day "they're people too" and make mistakes. Police are in a position of authority and power, and can easily ruin someone life if they're unethical or doing shady shit. This thread is full of examples.

Again in my opinion that position of power and authority should come with not just a higher bar of behavior, but also punishment.
(The same way a CAF major should be punished more harshly than a pte.)

This guy had a poopy day and assaulted a 13 year old handcuffed kid. Would I get the same conditional discharge? Maybe. Does the conditional discharge give the optics of him not being held accountable? I think so.

This case may not be a good example but there are a number of cases where cops get a conditional discharge that seem at odds with justice being done.

your last sentence is true- but does that mean it’s better to bring attention to everything it dilutes the ones we need to bring a light onto. That’s just an opinion.

There was a spat of teachers charged with assault in the Arctic for removing violent kids from their classroom when the parents figured out they could press the issue.

They were given absolute discharges. But then the school board declined to employee they further- right or wrong.

The criminal and the professional aspects have to be separated. If you can’t control your temper as a cop- you shouldn’t have a job. But there is an also a human aspect where they also have bad days- and it’s not their normal behaviour. In my day ( ) you partner would tag you out to take a break and calm down and bring you back down to earth. When I was running operations recently- I found officers offended that they were told to go take five when they were heated.

It’s wild that with the proliferation of cameras it seems like levelheadedness may have decreased- anecdotally of course.

 

[Haggis]

It’s wild that with the proliferation of cameras it seems like levelheadedness may have decreased- anecdotally of course.

Non LE cameras (not body or dashcams) can also cause or encourage a subject to escalate and try to bait the LEO into saying or doing something untoward.

 

[Booter]

Non LE cameras (not body or dashcams) can also cause or encourage a subject to escalate and try to bait the LEO into saying or doing something untoward.

True.

 

[mariomike]

As far as restraint goes, looks like chemical is popular,

26 Apr. 2024

Dozens of deaths reveal risks of injecting sedatives into people restrained by police

The medical syringe has become a tool of control during police encounters, a practice that quietly spread based on questionable science.

apnews.com

has spread quietly across the nation over the last 15 years

 

[brihard]

As far as restraint goes, looks like chemical is popular,

26 Apr. 2024

Dozens of deaths reveal risks of injecting sedatives into people restrained by police

The medical syringe has become a tool of control during police encounters, a practice that quietly spread based on questionable science.

apnews.com

Medics should not be in the business of lawful restraint.

Police should not be in the business of administering or ordering medications.

Unless emergency doctors are going to start doing ridealongs, this should stop. This isn’t a thing in Canada.

 

[mariomike]

Medics should not be in the business of lawful restraint.

Only restrain a patient if,

i. directed by a physician or police officer,
ii. an unescorted patient becomes violent en route, or
iii. use of restraints is required to provide emergency treatment as per the Patient Refusal/Emergency Treatment Standard,

This isn’t a thing in Canada.

Only familiar with our little corner of it.

Combative Patient Medical Directive

Indications Combative OR violent or agitated behavior that requires sedation for patient safety.

Suspected excited delirium / severe violent psychosis

Ketamine

Age ≥ 18 years

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ketamine

Ever take a little nip?