Police Folk Allegedly Behaving Badly

[lenaitch]

I did a bit of reading of Ontario Regulation 926 and O. Reg. 532/22. It appears that a UoF report isn't required if there are no injuries, basically.
RCMP, OPP, and OPS. all follow that policy.

However, unless I'm mistaken, the UoF report must also be filed when physical force is used that could reasonably be expected to cause injury, even if no injury is reported.

Throwing a handcuffed youth to the floor, even without injury, exceeds soft physical control and would fall under hard physical control, or even assaultive behavior by the officer. If the kid landed wrong he could have broke his neck.

Additionally the youth is in a mental health crisis and has a disability which should raise the threshold for appropriate and proportional use of force.

In this case I think a UoF report would be mandatory because:

-serious physical force was used
-it could reasonably be expected to cause injury
-the subject was handcuffed and not actively threatening anyone
-the subject was a youth*
-the subject was in a mental health crisis and has a disability

*filing a UoF report isn't required simply due to someone being a youth however it's highly recommended by the Ontario Human Rights Commission and many police forces adopt it as a best practice.

With respect, you are reading a lot into the Regulation that isn't there.

e-Laws | Ontario.ca

www.ontario.ca

What the Human Rights Commission wants is largely irrelevant. People may wish things are a certain way, or should be a certain way, but they often aren't.

If the RCMP in Ontario follow Regulations under the Ontario Community Safety and Policing Services Act they are doing so as a matter of internal policy. They are not subject to the Act. Neither are they subject to the Special Investigations Unit Act.

I have no doubt that as the population ages, there will be more & more 'senior criminals'...

Until there is some sort of information that suggests this lady was secretly a criminal or was hanging with the criminal element, I'm going to assume the guy who stabbed her while she was unloading groceries & ran off is just a special kind of lowly shitbag.

Random acts of violence are not unknown. I'm guessing either a mental illness or drug addiction.

 

[Jarnhamar]

With respect, you are reading a lot into the Regulation that isn't there.

The agreed statement of facts say:

The report notes Khan “failed to submit” a general occurrence report or an Investigative Action detailing his use of force on the child.

Someone in a relative position of authority thinks he should have submitted a use of force report.

What the Human Rights Commission wants is largely irrelevant.

Submitting a UoF report when children are handcuffed, let alone physically assaulted while handcuffed, isn't a bad thing.

 

[brihard]

The agreed statement of facts say:



Someone in a relative position of authority thinks he should have submitted a use of force report.


Submitting a UoF report when children are handcuffed, let alone physically assaulted while handcuffed, isn't a bad thing.

Neither of those is a use of force report specific to articulating the degree of force used and why. Both terms just describe a generic officer’s report / actions on a file. Ontario has a specific use of force report template for municipal or provincial police (not RCMP, MPs, railroad cops or other federal law enforcement).

Gang initiation?

You’re probably closer than any of the rest of us. Looks like a parking theory is robbery gone wrong. Police have taken the rare step of getting the court’s permission to name a 14 year old wanted for murder. Here’s a news article; I won’t paste it into here because in a week that exemption to the prohibition on publishing the youth suspect’s identity will expire.

Police hunt for 14-year-old murder suspect accused of stabbing 71-year-old woman - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

On Friday afternoon, police announced they were searching for a 14-year-old boy wanted for the second-degree murder of Shahnaz Pestonji the day before.

globalnews.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

Neither of those is a use of force report specific to articulating the degree of force used and why. Both terms just describe a generic officer’s report / actions on a file. Ontario has a specific use of force report template for municipal or provincial police (not RCMP, MPs, railroad cops or other federal law enforcement).

Okay I'll concede. What kind of report would you use to report criminally assaulting a disabled, restrained child?

 

[lenaitch]

Someone in a relative position of authority thinks he should have submitted a use of force report.

Brihard beat me to it. Failing to submit a general occurrence/incident report or any other service-mandated report surrounding an interaction with the public is pretty basic stuff.

I'm not defending what the OPS member did or didn't do, but if the system wants certain reports under certain circumstances, and wants to sanction police officers for failing to do so, then the system had better prescriptively articulate those circumstances. A post-facto subjective 'he should have' doesn't cut it. The system has increasingly restricted the scope of police discretion, particularly when it is exercised in a way it oesn't like. Somewhat surprisingly, courts tend to have a better view of this than services and oversight bodies.

 

[brihard]

Okay I'll concede. What kind of report would you use to report criminally assaulting a disabled, restrained child?

If the officer uses force that falls short of any of the statutory or regular thresholds (either type of force or resultant injury) for a specific templated form, they would still be expected and required to promptly and truthfully document their actions in their own narrative report on the file, and in their written notes. Similarly, any officer on scene witnessing someone else’s inappropriate use of force that might contravene their service’s conduct standards will generally be obligated to report that.

Obviously I can’t speak to the specific notes/report policies of every police service but I expect what I’ve said generalizes well.

 

[brihard]

Regarding the Toronto robbery mentioned in those thread: one in custody.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/teenager-arrested-north-york-fatal-stabbing-1.7589617

 

[daftandbarmy]

Uniquely awful...

Golden State Killer: former police officer pleads guilty to string of murders​

Joseph James DeAngelo admits to 13 murders, 13 kidnapping-related charges and dozens of sexual assaults

Forty years after a suburban rapist terrorized California in a series of assaults and killings, a 74-year-old former police officer has pleaded guilty to being the elusive Golden State Killer.

Joseph James DeAngelo, 74, pleaded guilty on Monday to a wave of crimes stretching back to the 1970s, including 13 murders and 13 kidnapping-related charges throughout California, and admitted to dozens of sexual assaults that he could not be criminally charged with.

Under terms of the plea deal, DeAngelo will face a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/28/golden-state-killer-survivors-guilty-plea
The plea deal spares DeAngelo any chance of the death penalty. Prosecutors who had sought the death penalty cited the highly complicated case and the advancing age of many of the victims and witnesses in agreeing to consider the plea bargain.

DeAngelo was arrested in 2018 after law enforcement compared DNA from the crimes committed in the 1970s and 80s across 11 California counties with that of users on the open-source genealogy website GEDMatch.

Golden State Killer: former police officer pleads guilty to string of murders

Joseph James DeAngelo admits to 13 murders, 13 kidnapping-related charges and dozens of sexual assaults

www.theguardian.com

 

[CBH99]

Uniquely awful...

Golden State Killer: former police officer pleads guilty to string of murders​

Joseph James DeAngelo admits to 13 murders, 13 kidnapping-related charges and dozens of sexual assaults

Forty years after a suburban rapist terrorized California in a series of assaults and killings, a 74-year-old former police officer has pleaded guilty to being the elusive Golden State Killer.

Joseph James DeAngelo, 74, pleaded guilty on Monday to a wave of crimes stretching back to the 1970s, including 13 murders and 13 kidnapping-related charges throughout California, and admitted to dozens of sexual assaults that he could not be criminally charged with.

Under terms of the plea deal, DeAngelo will face a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.
'I pray it will finally be over': Golden State Killer survivors hope guilty plea brings justice
The plea deal spares DeAngelo any chance of the death penalty. Prosecutors who had sought the death penalty cited the highly complicated case and the advancing age of many of the victims and witnesses in agreeing to consider the plea bargain.

DeAngelo was arrested in 2018 after law enforcement compared DNA from the crimes committed in the 1970s and 80s across 11 California counties with that of users on the open-source genealogy website GEDMatch.

Golden State Killer: former police officer pleads guilty to string of murders

Joseph James DeAngelo admits to 13 murders, 13 kidnapping-related charges and dozens of sexual assaults

www.theguardian.com

And incase anybody was still wondering if these genealogy websites sell your personal data or not...

They've caught a few twisted screws this way so far. I'm glad the strategy is working.

 

[brihard]

And incase anybody was still wondering if these genealogy websites sell your personal data or not...

They've caught a few twisted screws this way so far. I'm glad the strategy is working.

I did the Major Crimes course at Canadian Police College a couple years back. We got a really interesting presentation from a Toronto Police detective who’s been one of the real drivers of genetic genealogy in Canada. It’s not generally a clear cut matter of getting a really close match (though sometimes they do), but generally they’ll get a few separate hits on distant cousins and work it from there.

 

[Remius]

And incase anybody was still wondering if these genealogy websites sell your personal data or not...

They've caught a few twisted screws this way so far. I'm glad the strategy is working.

They absolutely do. In another life doing privacy stuff this came up quite a bit.

In particular to insurance companies so they could refuse coverage based on your dna results.

 

[CBH99]

I did the Major Crimes course at Canadian Police College a couple years back. We got a really interesting presentation from a Toronto Police detective who’s been one of the real drivers of genetic genealogy in Canada. It’s not generally a clear cut matter of getting a really close match (though sometimes they do), but generally they’ll get a few separate hits on distant cousins and work it from there.

That sounds like a really interesting presentation indeed - wish I'd been a fly on the wall for it

There are some truly brilliant minds working some historical crimes files that just make me kinda cock my head to the side like a dog does, and just go "Huh..." as the brilliance of some techniques slowly sink in

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I did a bit of reading of Ontario Regulation 926 and O. Reg. 532/22. It appears that a UoF report isn't required if there are no injuries, basically.
RCMP, OPP, and OPS. all follow that policy.

However, unless I'm mistaken, the UoF report must also be filed when physical force is used that could reasonably be expected to cause injury, even if no injury is reported.

Throwing a handcuffed youth to the floor, even without injury, exceeds soft physical control and would fall under hard physical control, or even assaultive behavior by the officer. If the kid landed wrong he could have broke his neck.

Additionally the youth is in a mental health crisis and has a disability which should raise the threshold for appropriate and proportional use of force.

In this case I think a UoF report would be mandatory because:

-serious physical force was used
-it could reasonably be expected to cause injury
-the subject was handcuffed and not actively threatening anyone
-the subject was a youth*
-the subject was in a mental health crisis and has a disability

*filing a UoF report isn't required simply due to someone being a youth however it's highly recommended by the Ontario Human Rights Commission and many police forces adopt it as a best practice.

Just a question to no one in particular. Given the antics we see from people being arrested, how does one determine whether the actions of the perp are a mental health event or the person is just being a fucking idiot having a tantrum? No one around to explain whether the person normally is affected by MH.

 

[brihard]

Just a question to no one in particular. Given the antics we see from people being arrested, how does one determine whether the actions of the perp are a mental health event or the person is just being a fucking idiot having a tantrum? No one around to explain whether the person normally is affected by MH.

On scene, we’re basically doing our best with our training and previous experience to get a feel for the person and what will be effective in bringing the threat level down, changing their behaviour, making the scene safe, and getting them into custody if need be. Results vary wildly. But on scene we aren’t expected to have that all figured out while things are still dynamic. Just do our best in good faith and within the law. Usually I think we get an inkling of what’s up and whether it’s a mental health call or just someone being a dipshit in a no-dipshits zone.

As for after that, the more time has elapsed and the farther in the judicial process things have gone, the most firm and accurate our or the crown’s information is expected to be. How we make our call on scene before cuffs are on will be sketchier than how we make a decision about if we need to bring someone to hospital for mental health assessment, and that will be less reliable than later on in determining fitness for Carol or criminal responsibility once months have passed and clinicians have weighed in.

 

[brihard]

Oh good lord…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-police-officers-charged-1.7603244

 

[dapaterson]

Oh good lord…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-police-officers-charged-1.7603244

That's...

Umm...

Impressive in a terrible way?

 

[dapaterson]

Oh good lord…

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-police-officers-charged-1.7603244

Finally someone decided to challenge OPS.

 

[dapaterson]

Fifteen years later...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/constable-to-be-punished-more-than-15-years-after-having-sex-on-duty-1.7603728

Meanwhile,

Richard Lemay

www.gg.ca

 

[brihard]

Fifteen years later...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/constable-to-be-punished-more-than-15-years-after-having-sex-on-duty-1.7603728

Meanwhile,

Richard Lemay

www.gg.ca

Bizarre. I’d love to know the story on this timeline.

 

[dapaterson]

Bizarre. I’d love to know the story on this timeline.

Long-time undercover finally out from his cover?