Possible Clothe the Soldier dropleg setup?

[PJOsborne]

Sounds like it might therefore be possible to put a PALS dump pouch onto there as well, a la Lobster Trap.

***Notice to all those who would like a copy of the AAR***

Please don't send me a DIN email address. I have been unable to send the Zip file through my DIN account because of the size. So, for that reason, please provide an alternate address. I will be sending an email out with the attachment this afternoon to those who I haven't gotten around to yet.

Thanks for your co-operation.
Pat

 

[KevinB]

I STRONGLY recommend NOT using a butstock mounted pouch for a mag.  - Its a typical US FOBBIT device designed to secure a mag while on a FOB (FOB's here in Iraq are different that Afghan) -- but it removes the ability to do proper weapons drills - especially stoppgae IA's. 

That and the CMAG have probably killed more troops than any other idiot gadget deployed.

If you want an extra mag --- use a redimag 

 

[Matt_Fisher]

I STRONGLY recommend NOT using a butstock mounted pouch for a mag.  - Its a typical US FOBBIT device designed to secure a mag while on a FOB (FOB's here in Iraq are different that Afghan) -- but it removes the ability to do proper weapons drills - especially stoppgae IA's. 

That and the CMAG have probably killed more troops than any other idiot gadget deployed.

If you want an extra mag --- use a redimag 

For what the LCol was requesting, the buttstock mag pouch is decent way to carry a mag in a non-tactical setting, i.e. KAF on the way to the boardwalk or DFAC, a buttstock mag pouch is a decent alternative.  Beta CMAGs have came a LONG way since their inception and HK has done wonders addressing feed issues with the current production models as compared to the older ones.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Wow, that report from the TAV AAR shows me where the TF commander got his replies to my questions from.  I sure hope I can get my bioscience degree soon so I can be a better soldier!!

Were you not able to send that email to yourself at home then make the necessary revisions (like putting it in text form) before sending it out?  It's heavy!! haha

 

[KevinB]

Matt -- some of the guys here have BRAND new clear back CMAGS -- they still are not fit for duty...  maybe fine on a range - but as soon as you get the dust in them from driving or chopper rides they seize and gag.
and I disagree on the mag pouch on the buttstock -- sicne guys wont take them off leaving KAF -- why had a pice of kit that hinders the weapon on it anyway?
  Dont want a redimag -- buy a belt pouch or toss a mag in a pocket.

 

[Dissident]

and I disagree on the mag pouch on the buttstock -- sicne guys wont take them off leaving KAF -- why had a pice of kit that hinders the weapon on it anyway?

We have the but pouch here. I use it so that I always have a mag close by with my rifle, even though it tends to sit in the rack more than anything else. The but pouch has been issued to everyone here, I think, and people use them inside KAF. I have yet to see it still attached to a rifle while outside by any canadian, which is good and somewhat unexpected if you ask me. 

Apparently, some of the US army guys here in the RTC use it everywhere.

 

[NL_engineer]

Wow, that report from the TAV AAR shows me where the TF commander got his replies to my questions from.  I sure hope I can get my bioscience degree soon so I can be a better soldier!!

Me too  :

So according to DLR, gear from HSGI for example is trash :

On an other note, after reading the AAR, did anyone else become sick to the stomach?

 

[PJOsborne]

NL, I did post a warning regarding the sickness symptoms back on page 1  :blotto: bad stuff, eh?

As far as retyping the whole AAR to make it a text format, this would take some time on my part seeing as I'm not all that great at speed typing or data entry. Taking pictures provided a decent compromise, and I do offer a much smaller version as well, albeit with the caveat that you have to get the free decoder from the company's website in order to decompress it.

It sounds to me like CTS and DLR are using the aspect of "bio-design" and "bio-science" to hide from the criticisms.. I don't see what makes the TV any better than the other options out there, from a comfort standpoint. As far as bio-design is concerned, I think even CTS can admit that they messed up when it comes to the issue canteen pouch and trying to re-insert the canteen vertically! I think if they were asked about it though, they'd probably respond by saying it was designed so that a buddy could re-insert it for you and that we were merely using it incorrectly.

 

[riggermade]

1 RCR reconized the ammo problem before last tour and were going to have droplegs made for all the troops to carry extras and it was cancelled by Ottawa because it was part of a weapons system and could not be bought locally

 

[Bzzliteyr]

It doesn't matter anyhow.. according to the AAR, we shouldn't have all that ammo anyway.  It's not bio-friendly!!  Darn all those soldiers in the world that continue to defy the laws of bio-science by using "non-approved" kit and being functional!!!  Damn them all!!!

I shook my head in disbelief when I read that, it's scary. 

Patrick, did you not get an email copy of that at work?  If so, all you would have to do is forward it to your home email then cut and paste into a new email or text file.

 

[PJOsborne]

I didn't get actually get a copy of the email, but another officer in my unit did and then passed me a printed copy. He unfortunately deleted the email after printing it, so I photographed the printed copy.

 

[riggermade]

I find it funny that the majority of soldiers they talked to had no problem with the TV and the smallpack....couldn't have been anybody from Petawawa because everybody I deal with hates both....must have been all the staff weinies who don't leave camp?

 

[PJOsborne]

Hey, when you tweak the definition of "had a problem with", you can make anything sound good. An example that springs to mind is the Congressional investigations on Defence looking into the discrepancies with the Patriot missile during Gulf War I.

When the Army claimed that the Patriot had intercepted Scuds, the congressional chairman said: "Well, what do you mean by intercept?" The general testifying said: "Well, by intercept we meant that they passed each other in the sky." The chairman said: "Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. 'Intercept' doesn't mean it actually hit it; it just means that they passed each other like ships at sea."  "Yes," said the general. "That's correct." That little exchange lasted about ten seconds. It made the nightly news, and it actually hurt this general's career.

-Great Military Blunders; Geoffrey Regan 2004, Pg. 160

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Um, did you see who they went out with?? 6 days with the PRT, 4 days with the NSE and 2 at camp mirage.. I can see how the majority of them had no problems.  Any of those units happen to be front line?  I ask as I haven't been over yet...the closest I can see is the PRT.. they go outside the wire on foot and might be expected to encounter enemy.

 

[riggermade]

Um, did you see who they went out with?? 6 days with the PRT, 4 days with the NSE and 2 at camp mirage.. I can see how the majority of them had no problems.  Any of those units happen to be front line?  I ask as I haven't been over yet...the closest I can see is the PRT.. they go outside the wire on foot and might be expected to encounter enemy.

Bzzz that was my thought exactely

 

[PhilB]

At the time of the TAV it was B Coy 3VP at the PRT. That being said it was roto 0, prior to starting kinetic ops. Not that the boys in the 3rd didnt see and do a lot, but I would deduce that the time frame is why that perspective is absent from the report.

 

[NL_engineer]

I find it funny that the majority of soldiers they talked to had no problem with the TV and the smallpack....couldn't have been anybody from Petawawa because everybody I deal with hates both....must have been all the staff weinies who don't leave camp?

This information was probably gathered from the survey.  For those that don't know anything about survey design; you can design one to get the answers you want.  For example, it could questions like these:
Rated on a scale of 1-5 (5 being the best)

1. What do you think of the quality materials used in the TV
2. What do you think of the front pockets on the TV

Notice how the first question is loaded.  Out of all the survey questions, I don't think that there would be more then 5 related to mag carrage/placement. 

Even if the feed back was not what they wanted, the report would still be the same, IMHO.  Also, I would like to see the information on the collection, and the respondents.  I think they may have had senior officers conducting the surveys (no influence there : ), and the majority of respondents officers, that don't leave the wire (why ask the end user, as they don't know what they want : ); and pte's, as they are easily influenced by a Senior officer.

 

[KevinB]

Since 3VP may URC's before INC B COY -- My guess is DLR/CTS did ther typical.  Having been the "victim: of the CTS discusion -- they ignored the entire thing and reporteed their own thing.
   Sorry Steve -- better find a new job...SNIFF

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Okay boys and girls:  I have in my posession, a very nice piece of "Army Lessons Learned Center" paperwork that just blows this stupid AAR out of the water!  Dated September 2006, it has all the goodies we seem to be whining about.. yet somehow, I think it got lost in the system.  I direct your attention to scan004 as that's where the goodies about the TV are.  Peruse the whole thing and let's start FUMING!! 

One of my favourite lines "Many of the observations are not based on <b>empirical data</b>, however they are based on the corroboration of multiple sources, common held beliefs throughout the TF-K and never from a sole source."

Oh yeah.. I am not going to post it here.. you'll have to PM me or email moi at bzzliteyr at hotmale dot com.

When requesting, tell me if you want the big 5.12MB size - very legible or the smaller, slightly less legible 929Kb version, thanks

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Hmm, seems like posting something in here seems to have brought the whole conversation to a halt.  I am hoping it's just the server acting up..

Anyone feel free to discuss the new AAR?