Problem with work to play on reginal's sports team

[the_abuse]

I just got posted to 8wing Trenton for my Apprenticeship as an ACS. A few of us that are currently in our apprenticeship are also on the Ball hockey team for Regionals which is only a month away. Our ETO told us that we are not allowed to play sports while we are on our apprenticeship. The 3 of us are posted to different units (ATTESS, 436 and 429) but our training falls under 8 AMS. (which is the ETO that said we cant play sports.) We are just wondering if there is a way we can go around this to be able to play. All of us love hockey and think that its rediculas (along with many others of different rank levels),  that we are not allowed to participate in military related fitness activities. As a first step we will be putting in a  memo for time off for regional's like the rest of the team has to do which in the past everyone's that not on their apprenticeship which is just us 3 will get approved because its a Regionals team. We have a suspicion that all 3 of our memo's will get denied which we will then re-address. This is kind of where i am asking for help. Is there any orders ie canforgens or any document that could help us out with getting us able to play in the Regional's and also if any one is here from 8 Wing that knows if this is a legit policy that has been documented and approved or if its just the ETO being to lazy to want to reschedule our apprentice training to add 1 week which we all dont care if they do.

Side not, I have been in since 2005 where i started out in the infantry and have never in the past in the ARMY had a problem of getting off work for anything fitness related. It seems that the Air Force has a big problem with letting people engage in fitness sports with in working houra. Just kinda boggles my mind that the Airforce dosen't care to promote your well being of fitness which is a soldiers main responsibility (to keep fit)... Since joining The Air Force in 2010 i kind of realize now why there are so many unfit members in the Air Force especially in Trenton... Even at the unit level when they have Group PT during working hours if it permits, Its not mandatory and the only people that go are the ones that are physically fit that engage in sports or working out on a daily basis. While the rest of the tubs drink coffee and eat fat pills. If anything I am helping the military out by being physically fit / mini-rant


Let me know what you all can find.

All and any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

 

[captloadie]

First of all, are you hoping that your ETO isn't a member here and reading these boards? Being one of three people submitting a specific memo is singling you out pretty easily, and I wouldn't take lightly to being called lazy on a public forum.

Second, you're not in the Army any more buttercup. Your primary job is going to be working on an aircraft, not staying fit, which is a personal responsibility. You'd better get over it now, or find a new trade where you don't wear blue. I don't want to paint everyone with a broad brush, but many Combat Arms types who OT out of Combat Arms, regardless of the element of their new MOC, don't get the fact they will have an everyday job that needs to get done, on top of and usually before personal fitness and individual training (FA,weapons, etc.).

Lastly, how many times were you allowed on predeployment training for AFG to take a week off to play sports? Why do you think the RCAF would be any different?

 

[PuckChaser]

Military sports are a privilege, not a right. I missed the national Signals hockey tournament last year due to a deployment. It sucked, but I didn't put a memo in to delay my flight date and complain my boss was lazy because I couldn't play. You've got a job to do, and that always will come first, whether you like it or not.

 

[aesop081]

Our ETO told us that we are not allowed to play sports while we are on our apprenticeship.

A decision that, while disapointing, is fairly reasonable. You should be focusing on your aprenticeship.

All of us love hockey and think that its rediculas (along with many others of different rank levels),  that we are not allowed to participate in military related fitness activities.

I was not aware that decisions in the CF were made with concensus from subordinates.

We have a suspicion that all 3 of our memo's will get denied which we will then re-address.

You will then submit a greivance, not a "re-address", unless of course, you are forwarding mail.

Side not, I have been in since 2005 where i started out in the infantry and have never in the past in the ARMY had a problem of getting off work for anything fitness related.

I have never realy had an issue  in the RCAF either.

It seems that the Air Force has a big problem with letting people engage in fitness sports with in working houra.

Far from it.

Just kinda boggles my mind that the Airforce dosen't care to promote your well being of fitness which is a soldiers main responsibility (to keep fit)...

My main responsability is not to keep fit. I have to keep fit but it is not my main responsability.

Since joining The Air Force in 2010 i kind of realize now why there are so many unfit members in the Air Force especially in Trenton...

Plenty of fat slobs in the Army too.........


So, in other words : Go to hell.

{signed}
Physicaly fit RCAF member

 

[Cdnleaf]

A few of us that are currently in our apprenticeship are also on the Ball hockey team for Regionals which is only a month away. Our ETO told us that we are not allowed to play sports while we are on our apprenticeship.

Contradiction there - from reading your post the COC has consented? to your participation on the Ball Hockey Team, however has denied your request to attend the regional tournament.  I agree with above comments, the ETO decision is completely reasonable.  Ranting on Army.ca when not happy with a COC decision is somewhat common, however you really have distinguished yourself with a lack of PERSEC and ignorance for the RCAF valuation of physical fitness.  2c: An amazing feature of Army.ca is that spell check is free, perhaps take the time to develop this skill.  Unfortunately tact is not and must be learned, which IMHO your post clearly lacks.)  At the risk of this response and the above being clearly misplaced in your opinion;  I know - I'm all wrong, don't get it, never played sports and am otherwise unfit etc. etc.  Have a great day.

 

[ModlrMike]

Second, you're not in the Army any more buttercup. Your primary job is going to be working on an aircraft, not staying fit, which is a personal responsibility. You'd better get over it now, or find a new trade where you don't wear blue. I don't want to paint everyone with a broad brush, but many Combat Arms types who OT out of Combat Arms, regardless of the element of their new MOC, don't get the fact they will have an everyday job that needs to get done, on top of and usually before personal fitness and individual training (FA,weapons, etc.).

Sorry, I have to disagree with you there, and so does the CDS. There's even a CANFORGEN under his signature that directs that fitness is a primary, service responsibility and that units are directed to provide time and opportunity during the normal working day for fitness activities.

I'd post the reference, but I don't have access at home.


Participation in Regional sports while undertaking primary occupation training is quite another matter, and I agree with your comments WRT that issue.

 

[aesop081]

I'd post the reference, but I don't have access at home.

DAOD 5023-2 Physical Fitness Program:
http://www.admfincs-smafinsm.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5023-2-eng.asp

Participation

CF members of the Regular Force and Primary Reserve shall participate in regular physical fitness training. COs are responsible to ensure that CF members are provided opportunities to conduct physical fitness activities during normal working hours when circumstances permit. When this is not feasible, CF members should conduct physical fitness activities outside normal working hours. As general guidance, physical fitness activities should be conducted in 60-minute sessions, a minimum of five times per week.

CDS Guidance to COs:
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/wainwright/EN/FitnessandSports/MilitaryFitness/Documents/CDS%20Guidance%20to%20Commanding%20Officers.Chap%2022.pdf

Nothing in either documents precludes restricting participation in regional sports teams.

 

[Strike]

To the OP, it sucks that you have to miss a competition, but you're going to have to get over it. I've missed both National and international-level competitions due to training and exercises. This is not an unusual occurance.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... There's .... a CANFORGEN under his signature that directs that fitness is a primary, service responsibility and that units are directed to provide time and opportunity during the normal working day for fitness activities .... Participation in Regional sports while undertaking primary occupation training is quite another matter, and I agree with your comments WRT that issue.

When it comes to sports tournaments while on apprenticeship, it appears the consensus is....

You're going to have to pick your fights.

 

[PuckChaser]

Lets just hope no one gets ahold of his ETO at 8 AMS and lets him know of this guy's displeasure with his leadership style.

 

[Journeyman]

Yesssssss.....lets hope    >

 

[smale436]

"It seems that the Air Force has a big problem with letting people engage in fitness and sports within working hours."

    Quite the opposite in my location actually. Our unit doesn't have mandatory or scheduled PT time at all however it has been a very rare occasion where people are not allowed to leave night shift in order to attend hockey, soccer, baseball, or whatever. Whether it's a game, practice, or tournament. Even with Maple Flag going on and being crazy busy right now guys are cut loose and generally don't have to come back to work afterward. Usually the PSP staff or the team's representative would send a memo to the UWO's requesting permission and there was never an issue attending the tournament's. But people on a QL5 course are generally denied. In fact, our unit was quite accomodating changing travel arrangements so one person could attend the National tournament immediately before her PLQ without having to come home in between for two days.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Lets just hope no one gets ahold of his ETO at 8 AMS and lets him know of this guy's displeasure with his leadership style.

Yeah, we'll keep it as our little secret, then....

 

[CountDC]

PILE!!!

Ok - a point you seem to miss is that your apprenticeship is the same as my going on my QL3/4/5 whatever course.  You are on training and may not mind it being extended by a week but the military does.  That is another week that you are sitting there training instead of posted to a unit as a fully qualified and functioning member of the unit put into the work schedule.  It is also another week that some other member waiting for an apprenticeship position is delayed.  Sorry, no sympathy here either.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Unless someone has a different point of view then I think that OP gets the messsage. [and if you do just PM a Mod to open this]
Locked,
Bruce