Professional Envy/Jealousy in the CF...Does it Exist?

[Kiwi99]

Never thought I would say this, but good post 48th.  This is a good example of what someone might think if they believed they had been hard done by.

Human nature has us envious of all who have it better than we do at that moment in time. No getting around that at all.  But does it limit the CF in any way. In laymans terms, could the CF be a more effeciant org at all levels if people left their egos out of it?

Also, does the feeling on envy or jealousy limit the performance of people and prevent them from conducting tasks to their full potential?

 

[Timmy!]

Okay..I know I may be jumping in deep water here too. But what about education of the person? Do they know the "flip side" of that trade?

Some folks can think they can do the same thing as whatever trade... well they can, if they go threw the same training.

Am I beating a dead horse?

Edit to Add more stuff.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Cheers Kiwi (Never thought I would say that! Hey is someone hijacking my computer and I.D...),

I think it does limit the CF.  To me it is the deterioration of the image we as Canadians are, with regards to Soldiery.

Whatever happened to the humble soldier, that did what they had to do, and did not crave admiration of others?  I believe that this new breed of Feelings has spawned a type of troop that acts like today's teen....mememe what about me.

When they do not get it, they fly off the handle and beat their chest.  It has me questioning whether they actually do have control of their feelings.

dileas

tess

 

[KevinB]

You see it pretty much everywhere -- part of human nature I guess.

I've noticed that a lot of people in the CF have these issues, one thing the Army as a whole needs to do is remember combat is the end state of business.   Thus those who have been there, hold a lot more street cred than those who have not.
 Shitting on people and telling them Afghan does not mean shit is not a good way to inspire vetrans to passing their info out (I have a specific CWO in mind on this one...)

However I've noticed that many of the BTDT dont hesitate to drop the "war" card, including sometimes when its either not appropriate or diplomatic.

The main issue is that a very small percentage of groups (either the "Dinosaur" or the BTDT) are at fault -- yet by negative interaction with the small segments - that both groups gain discomfort and mistrust of the other.

 

[3rd Herd]

You see it pretty much everywhere -- part of human nature I guess.

Simple and accurate explanation.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

I've seen professional envy on the personal level several times. Sometimes by the member themselves sometimes by their spouse.

In most of the cases I have seen it stems from someone having been promoted just after entering their EPZ while their "peers" had been trained a little longer (ranging from a couple months to one year). Dispite that these people who had been trained in their MOC longer entered the CF under different programs, or had, in the past, failed a career course therefore having not entered their own EPZ for the same rank yet. These people knew on the surface that the promotion of the other person was justified...and could explain that to their spouse...but would still grumble and act awkwardly around the newly promoted mbr. Putting a strain on personal and professional relationships.

Some of these people have matured beyond the petty competitiveness and others haven't making it comical to watch the spouses inform eachother with "well my hubby is on XYZ course" and countering with "yeah, well mine is on ABCD tour and will be on XYZ course after but while yours is on FGHI course, my hubby will only have to do the HI portion and will likely get promoted out of it"

OH Pah-leeze!!!

It is human nature. If there weren't some form of envy, jealousy or competition no one would strive to better themselves, for whatever their motives.

 

[Roy Harding]

... If there weren't some form of envy, jealousy or competition no one would strive to better themselves ...

That is an extremely astute and germane observation!

 

[orange.paint]

and could explain that to their spouse...but would still grumble and act awkwardly around the newly promoted mbr. Putting a strain on personal and professional relationships.

And the funny part is when Mcpl x goes on course y that he complained he deserved better and fails off it.

Its been a good year for Karma.....for myself anyway.Absolutely beautiful.
Realise when you are jealous,make sure you are competent enough to do the job your jealous the other guys getting.Otherwise you look dumb.

People are still also under the idea that it's like 1988 when it comes to promotions.Sgt bloggins WILL get promoted next as he has the most TI. TI is slowley being replaced with job knowledge,performance and competence.Not always related to TI.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There's one that always got my goat:  Spouses wearing their partner's rank in the mess/CANEX/PMQ Patch, especially to troops.

  "Do you know who my husband is, Cpl?"

  "No ma'am, but it appears to me you must be much better at his job than he is, or HE'D be standing here jacking me up instead of letting his wife do it."


She was the Chief Cooks wife, and I got a week on duty for it.

  Jealousy on the job?  I was guilty of it every time someone got a course, task, or position that I wanted too.

 

[CdnArtyWife]

There's one that always got my goat:  Spouses wearing their partner's rank in the mess/CANEX/PMQ Patch, especially to troops.

  "Do you know who my husband is, Cpl?"

   "No ma'am, but it appears to me you must be much better at his job than he is, or HE'D be standing here jacking me up instead of letting his wife do it."


She was the Chief Cooks wife, and I got a week on duty for it.

  Jealousy on the job?  I was guilty of it every time someone got a course, task, or position that I wanted too.

haha
What's funny is I've been the victim of someone's spouse trying to "pull rank" on me. I found out later that my husband actually outranked hers...little did I know. I just politely informed her that though I support my hubby in his job and wear the "invisible" uniform...mine only comes with a rank that allows me to be two ranks ahead of my hubby in the domestic dept. Other than that I don't acknowledge rank...other than to greet people with the appropriate respect...and that only accounts for the members themselves. She left with her tail between her legs.

 

[George Wallace]

The main issue is that a very small percentage of groups (either the "Dinosaur" or the BTDT) are at fault -- yet by negative interaction with the small segments - that both groups gain discomfort and mistrust of the other.

Ah! Yes!  The "Dinosaur" or the "BTDT of Yesteryear"    Vs    the "BTDT of Today" soon to be the "Dinosaur of Tomorrow".  Funny thing all that.

 

[Kiwi99]

BTDT?  What the hell does that mean?  Bacon Tomato ...

 

[Scott]

Been There, Done That

 

[Yrys]

It's even in the military words Compendium 

http://army.ca/words/?function=showall&showlett=B

 

[Kiwi99]

I think that with people trying to pass on their experiances, it may be viewed as bragging, especially with ref to Afghanistan.  But on the other habd, I think it is also a good tool for releasing tension or other issues.  There is definitley a line not to be crossed, and it rarely is, but sometimes it will happen.

I have found for myself that I can talk freely about my experiances with my buddies that were there with me, but not so much to other people.  Perhaps I am not normal, who knows.

With ref to professional envy though, I think I am correct in saying that career soldiers must be envious of those who have been there when they have not.  I sure as hell know that I get pissed whenever I watch the news and see LAVS  heading out on a mission.  I am probably the most envious of all, and I know how bad it can get from experiance.

But does that interfere with the everyday running of the green machine?  I hope not, but I am unsure.

 

[armyvern]

I think that with people trying to pass on their experiances, it may be viewed as bragging, especially with ref to Afghanistan.  But on the other habd, I think it is also a good tool for releasing tension or other issues.  There is definitley a line not to be crossed, and it rarely is, but sometimes it will happen.

I'll refer to another post from LavIsGod for an example:

Passing on your experiences etc is one thing and is respected. It's unprofessional when you choose to throw in useless, spammy, unintelligent, and untrue comments like the one I've highlighted that causes the problems.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/57559/post-528375.html#msg528375

...
And it is not a crime for him to think that.  What is a crime is the obvious jealousy that has already started at the emention of combat badges.  Sure, now some people will have nothing to substantiate all ther stories, and others may realise that a rocket attack in KAF is not combat.  Do not begrudge the combat veterans for wanting recognition. they were doing a job that others couldnt do for people that even now glorify their time in KAF with tales of rocket attacks and power outtages.  The Canadian combat veterans of Afghanistan deserve better than a lot of the comments suggest...
...
With ref to 3VP being awarded a GG Award for thie OP APOLLO gig, come on.  Snipers returned fire and killed, the rest walked up a mountain.  There is no way that you can compare that tour to what is going on now.   Congrats to the combat vets from the RCR.  You will understand where I amcoming from.

If it weren't for the highlighted parts, this had the promise to be a professional post. Fact of the matter is, that was a matter of what position they were placed into in the CFTPO...to state that it is because the others (their infantry brethern at that) couldn't do the job is absolutely false, the others just never had the opportunity due to the fate of their position number. That's the facts.

In the second part that is highlighted, this poster is actually begruding the fact and calling his fellow infanteers unworthy because they only happened "to walk up a mountain." So what? They did so. They did so willingly and voluntarily!! They were willing to fight and die. They didn't have to...but  they were damn well willing to...and there's some people out there who desperately need to grasp that fact.

Crap like this is not professional, no matter how you choose to slice it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Kiwi99]

And that is the line not to be crossed that I mentioned.  I agree wholeheartedly with Librarian on this one.  That is why I think it is best kept to buddies and family.

So professional jealousy comes in all shapes and forms, and is something that is unavoidable given human nature.  I think that it may be agood thing in the sense that it motivates people, but a bad thing in that it can hinder progress, and potentially single people out.

 

[Michael OLeary]

So professional jealousy comes in all shapes and forms, and is something that is unavoidable given human nature.  I think that it may be agood thing in the sense that it motivates people, but a bad thing in that it can hinder progress, and potentially single people out.

Similarly, unjustly accusing others of "professional jealousy" just because they won't bow down to one's opinion is equally poisonous to rational debate.

 

[Popurhedoff]

I know "HitorMiss" is jealous of my hair 

 

[Yrys]

Hum, in what capacity does your profession requires you to have hair ?